Open up the Senior Admin window full time (Take 2)

  • perhaps AI isnt ready to replace humanity yet afterall


    The problem

    As of this thread detailing how Senior Admin positions are to be applied, applicants are expected to follow the application calendar, specifying the application, public and private voting periods that takes place in an application. This additional thread specifies the actual calendar itself, which is reposted as below:

    ?key=af9c62838ce9e85979d8dc107faf8171da3fdf1e30810b033a620e07eaf39462-aHR0cHM6Ly92aWRlb2dhbWVzbTEyLm1lL283WlM3OXUwUGNsSy5wbmc%3D

    As one can see, the calendar ends at March (which was 4 months ago), and therefore there are no dates to follow as to currently existing Admins if they wanted to apply for the position. Therefore, admins are, in a sense, soft-locked in their position, where they may never be promoted to be a Senior Admin. (This fact is courtesy of isaac.)

    In addition to the previously described problem, these application periods only occur every three months, meaning that even if an admin has had more than sufficient experience (like after spending 2 years on the server), they will still be required to wait out the periods if they were to "miss the train". This, in addition to the other requirements, is not really necessary for the position and does not further prove the applicant's ability to be a suitable candidate as a Senior. Personally, I also do not really see a reason as to why these applications as to be "batch performed" and there are no real improvements to efficiency even if they were in cohorts because of the small amount of applications (and applicants, for that matter).


    The Suggestion

    The suggestion is split into two parts:

    1. Re-open the Senior applications in general, and make a new calendar that continues the traditions set before.
      • This will re-enable the influx of Seniors to our servers, and re-enable promotion of our admins. They will undergo the same processes that many other Seniors has gone through as a previous applicant themselves.
    2. Completely open up senior applications such that they can be submitted at any time, following the voting processes already in place.
      • This removes the other barrier-of-entry previously mentioned that applicants must align their applications with the 3-month application window.
      • It is to be noted that this suggestion is not to remove the voting period processes (2 weeks public voting + 1 week Senior voting), and only serves to eliminate the 3-month window.

    Potential Problems

    As with the previous suggestion thread, some has raised the concern of there being too many Seniors existing amongst the staff ranks:

    We don't need more Senior Admins right now. We already have an imbalance of Senior Admins to regular Admins, and opening the floodgates honestly would make things worse.

    To provide detail to this, as of current, there exist 6 regular admins (3 having the required total service time to apply) and 11 seniors admins (6 of which are Executives, with Video being the current game-mode Owner). (Source: The maintained staff+MB list at AdminWorld).

    If there are any other potential problems with re-opening the senior applications, as well as potential issues with changing the application format to a more continous form, please discuss them in this thread.


    Personal Opinion

    I do not really see how having more Senior Admins necessarily make things "worse", as they are simply admins with more verified experience and has gone through strict voting processes. There would have to be an argument where having more seniors would obstruct the other, regular admins taking care of their own administrative duties, or some other form of damage to the staff structure as it exist right now. If such argument exist, I am open to discussion.

    Another fact remains that the Senior Admin application process itself is already convoluted enough that the 3-month application window does not really make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. From what I can see, it is an unecessary system that does not give significant additional benefits other than us appearing more professional. Having it remain will not make much of a difference, but having it removed would not change much as well, and thusly I recommend reducing complexity. If there are other potential benefits that I have missed with the window that I did not realize with writing this thread, please remind me so in a reply to the thread.


    In any case, I hope that the suggestion can induce some interesting conversations about what it means to be a "Senior Admin" and how the two staff ranks relate to one another. Even if the suggestion does not go through, I am sure that there will be useful discussions that can be referenced in the future. I look forward to your votes!

    C'est la vie

  • Vouch. I don't think this "Senior Admin window" system was a good idea in the first place, considering administrators may understandably take a few months away from TF for whatever reasons they may have, thus completely missing the application window if they met the pre-requisites already, as you've outlined in this thread.

    I don't find why having more Senior Admins is a bad thing for the server. All I see the rank doing is giving battle-worn administrators the ability to fulfill their role more effectively, as would any permission increase. It's not as if abolishing the current system will exactly "open the floodgates", as Video states in his objection to the original suggestion, since all the current system does is act as a delay in the way of Admins who want to become Senior Admins. All the current system does is delay the promotion of Admins to Senior Admins, it does not act as an effective filter for any possible low-quality applicants.

    All in all, I can't possibly fathom any way abolishing the current window system having any sort of negative bearing on the effective completion of administrative duties. If anything, it would be a positive change, as abolishing the window system, as I said in my first paragraph, gives experienced Admins tools to be even more effective in their roles.

  • I’m comfortable for either. Please though can we just have a system and stick to it? It’s changed back and forth a fair bit in the past few years

    i must also ask if anyone objects for the sake of ‘traditionalism’ to think long and hard about how important it is to be ‘traditional’ on here

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  • The whole "calendar" thing is stupid and as described in the suggestion thread, hasn't been updated and essentially any potential candidates for Senior are "locked" in their current position.

    I certainly vouch for the removal of the calendar.

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  • Object, I think this server has a problem with titles and power. With what senior admins are intended to be for, there should only be a handful of seniors and a lot of admins.

    Currently, the opposite is true. Personally, I would go as far as to suggest that senior admin promotions should be limited for every window, and this amount is changed depending on the demand for more senior admins.

  • there should only be a handful of seniors and a lot of admins.

    I’d honestly say that having more senior admins would be better for the server. I think having more people earn the rank - and I do mean earn it - would look good on the admin team and the server as a whole. I don’t see why the senior window shouldn’t be open full time, and I don’t think your statement about the server having a problem with titles and power is a fair assessment at all.

  • I’d honestly say that having more senior admins would be better for the server. I think having more people earn the rank - and I do mean earn it - would look good on the admin team and the server as a whole. I don’t see why the senior window shouldn’t be open full time, and I don’t think your statement about the server having a problem with titles and power is a fair assessment at all.

    I have to acknowledge you are more aware of the current situation than I am, but I am basing this on my (fair share of) experience with the server and what it means to have a power hierarchy.

    You would never see a police force with 10 chiefs and 3 constables, it doesn't make sense. Generally, those with more experience and power are fewer, and their job is to oversee and manage those below them.

    If I were to pick an ideal ratio arbitrarily, I'd go for something like 1:5. Having more Senior Admins than Admins makes the role redundant IMO, and I feel it exacerbates the historical issue the server has had with titles and power, though I give you the benefit of the doubt that it is not as big of an issue.

  • If I were to pick an ideal ratio arbitrarily, I'd go for something like 1:5. Having more Senior Admins than Admins makes the role redundant IMO

    I'm pretty new to all those dynamics but I believe the removal of the telnet rank made the gap between standard and senior admins narrower.

    As of now admins are a mixture of new and experienced members while senior admins are just the experienced ones who are willing to guide the others.

    TotalFreedom's Executive Community & Marketing Manager

  • Should probably spend your time writing suggestions that will actually impact anything

    This is pointless.

    how would you know? It's not like you've had any involvement in TF over the past few months or even years except for randomly coming on the forums to voice your shitty ideas.

  • Should probably spend your time writing suggestions that will actually impact anything

    This is pointless.

    Feuer spent his time to fix up and formalize a suggestion that didn't go well, and now looks great and well thought out... just for him to get this kind of reply on it? No vote, just a very rude reply. Not every suggestion needs to be ground-breaking, players are welcome to post suggestions about smaller stuff like this provided it has a goal.

    Anyways, I appreciate this being suggested in the first place and now being redone again. I actually want to keep the calendar, but only a few people talk about how fucking s l o w the current process is. This process does not have a lot of respect for player's time. Each process could easily be trimmed to make this more of a breezy process than a slow waiting game. Below is a list of ways to adjust each process.

    Application Window

    I have many complaints about this one. This should be much shorter. Most admins would likely already have their applications ready to go before and just need to maybe include recommendations and post it. It feels very unnecessary that this is the longest point in the process. This would be regularly announced and discussed in admin channels to let active admins know when the time comes. It feels kind of unnatural looking at all the applications come in and having to wait several weeks to actually vote.

    The First Voting Process

    This one could perhaps be maybe 11 or 12 days. I know it might be hard to remember and may not be symmetrical on a calendar anymore, but these periods should be a bit quicker rather than the slow drag they are before.

    Senior Level Voting

    This one is an appropriate time, given how Seniors don't exactly have the best activity. A week or so should be long enough to have most Seniors be able to do their thing. With these changes, the process would have about 16 days shaved off.

  • Should probably spend your time writing suggestions that will actually impact anything

    This is pointless.

    how would you know? It's not like you've had any involvement in TF over the past few months or even years except for randomly coming on the forums to voice your shitty ideas.

    So how would having more seniors fix any problems? I can say with confidence that the number of seniors had no correlation with problems being solved over the first eight years of this server.

    Oh yeah and object obviously.

  • vouch, we should keep senior admin apps open just so long as we have a good reason for accepting them (e.g. if a bunch of seniors just quit and the applicant is a model admin)

    Gommeh

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