would (probably) be one of the reason we wouldnt have new players XD
but still, vouch, would keep the "edgyness" (?) off the kids
Network-wide proposal: Basic chat filter
Please Note: The TotalFreedom Forum has now been put into a read-only mode. Total Freedom has now closed down and will not be returning in any way, shape or form. It has been a pleasure to lead this community and I wish you all the best for your futures.
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vouch, regardless of the average age of the community, this server should be more welcoming to incoming players and have a priority of that imo and fuck the tf history and let it go to shit honestly because we should not let that hold us back from improvements
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While I've already offered a compromise which seems to have been well-received, I'm still going to respond to Luke's post.
have you had an issue with the one on Discord so far?
Discord Administrators bypass the filters you put in place, so I can't measure this from firsthand experience.
compared to now where it’s whack a mole with people saying the slur?
Not really - we're not in the age of the Akefu raids anymore where we had people bypassing bans to continue using slurs. From a quick search through the Discord server, slurs aren't very commonly used at all compared to actual proper conversation. In pretty much every case, it's usually some edgy 12 year old thinking it's funny to use racial or homophobic slurs and they are often quickly curb stomped by a staff member.
i’d like you to explain this point more in particular in what context would this be acceptable
Firstly, filters aren't perfect and an example of this (as Ryan pointed out) is the classic Scunthrope problem, where innocent words get incorrectly flagged and caught by the filter. Take the word "snigger" for example - a lot of filters would see the last 6 letters and immediately flag it as offensive.
Secondly, I believe slurs are acceptable in a historical context if you are not the one who's actually using it. To elaborate, if you are providing transcripts of older conversations (which so happened to contain slurs in them) whilst documenting something historical that happened, that should be fine because the messages were from an era that was more accepting of that kind of language. Sure, you could alter them to remove that shit, but altering historical documentation to remove language that isn't acceptable today is altering history to me, and I'm not a fan of that at all.
Lastly, I believe slurs are also acceptable if they are used in the context of evidence. If someone were to file a ban request or something similar for someone who repeatedly spammed racial slurs on the server, they should be able to provide sufficient evidence that supports this.
honestly video you gotta humble yourself the only person who’d be able to do this is you if we have a filter set only to ban the n word/the f word/other slurs. if it’s in config.yml.
I'm not the only one who can do this. Anyone with file access could do this, not just me. Hell, if this gets implemented network-wide, I wouldn't be able to do this because I don't have access to NetworkManager.
by that extent we should also remove long term bans. admins exist to ban the users on sight. we should also remove /gtfo, as admins can kick on site. we should also remove /report because admins should be able to see what’s going on.
That's not the same thing at all and you know this.
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Not really - we're not in the age of the Akefu raids anymore where we had people bypassing bans to continue using slurs. From a quick search through the Discord server, slurs aren't very commonly used at all compared to actual proper conversation. In pretty much every case, it's usually some edgy 12 year old thinking it's funny to use racial or homophobic slurs and they are often quickly curb stomped by a staff member.
This is true. However, the chat filter being in place will stop the edgy 12 year olds you mentioned and any future raids that the server may experience. Just because the Akefu raids are now over - it doesn't mean that there aren't going to be any in the future. It'd be better to have a chat filter in place just in-case rather than not at all, or deployed too late.
Firstly, filters aren't perfect and an example of this (as Ryan pointed out) is the classic Scunthrope problem, where innocent words get incorrectly flagged and caught by the filter. Take the word "snigger" for example - a lot of filters would see the last 6 letters and immediately flag it as offensive.
While you are indeed correct about "snigger" being caught by a filter looking for the N word, I don't believe that specific example being a false positive is exactly going to harm anyone - according to a cursory search on Discord, the word "snigger" (or, well, "sniggering") too has been used a total of 7 times. I think this false positive is acceptable for an uncommon word (let's be honest, "snicker" is a much better alternative) in comparison to what the filter is preventing.
Secondly, I believe slurs are acceptable in a historical context if you are not the one who's actually using it. To elaborate, if you are providing transcripts of older conversations (which so happened to contain slurs in them) whilst documenting something historical that happened, that should be fine because the messages were from an era that was more accepting of that kind of language. Sure, you could alter them to remove that shit, but altering historical documentation to remove language that isn't acceptable today is altering history to me, and I'm not a fan of that at all.
If you must truly use slurs for historical purposes, and you don't want to censor them, then please use them off TF. I don't particularly understand your reasoning here, considering that TotalFreedom is a Minecraft server and not a platform for archiving transcripts of conversations.
Lastly, I believe slurs are also acceptable if they are used in the context of evidence. If someone were to file a ban request or something similar for someone who repeatedly spammed racial slurs on the server, they should be able to provide sufficient evidence that supports this.
I don't think the NetworkManager chat filter has OCR capabilities, considering most evidence is provided in the form of screenshots.
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From a quick search through the Discord server, slurs aren't very commonly used at all compared to actual proper conversation
You are correct. This is because of my chat filter.
Secondly, I believe slurs are acceptable in a historical context if you are not the one who's actually using it. To elaborate, if you are providing transcripts of older conversations (which so happened to contain slurs in them) whilst documenting something historical that happened, that should be fine because the messages were from an era that was more accepting of that kind of language. Sure, you could alter them to remove that shit, but altering historical documentation to remove language that isn't acceptable today is altering history to me, and I'm not a fan of that at all.
Lastly, I believe slurs are also acceptable if they are used in the context of evidence. If someone were to file a ban request or something similar for someone who repeatedly spammed racial slurs on the server, they should be able to provide sufficient evidence that supports this.Caleb dead honest regardless of your opinion, slurs are not permitted in historical context. This suggestion should be to assist admins with the current rules as they stand, not where you want them to be.
And slurs are permitted in evidence. But could you remind me in what situation exactly it would be important to say the full slur in evidence instead of just saying ‘the n word’ or the ‘the f slur’?
I'm not the only one who can do this. Anyone with file access could do this, not just me. Hell, if this gets implemented network-wide, I wouldn't be able to do this because I don't have access to NetworkManager.
Rylie and Ryan.
If Ryan wanted to 1984 the server then he’d have done it.
If Rylie wanted to 1984 the server then Ryan would remove Rylie.
Trust your team. Don’t be paranoid.
That's not the same thing at all and you know this.
Apologies for the strawman. I have nothing to say against this.
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Caleb dead honest regardless of your opinion, slurs are not permitted in historical context. This suggestion should be to assist admins with the current rules as they stand, not where you want them to be.
And slurs are permitted in evidence. But could you remind me in what situation exactly it would be important to say the full slur in evidence instead of just saying ‘the n word’ or the ‘the f slur’?I came here to say this earlier. Honestly in game use to explain historical context is even worse than using them in the first place. It implies this is a toxic hate filled environment and is incapable of changing.
I'm the highly unlikely event we do have any actual historically accurate and cases where it's important it would he on here or on a wiki with my prior approval and done in a way that both people don't have to see it, and only if redacting those slurs would fundamentally make it difficult or impossible to articulate what the meaning of the message is.
Slurs have no place on the network regardless of history, context or reasoning, especially in game.
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While I've already offered a compromise which seems to have been well-received,
The compromise you mention is what I originally wanted in the first place.
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I tried fighting this battle a long time ago. It’s pretty ridiculous that there still hasn’t been a basic chat filter to block simple words such as “n*gger” or other racial slurs. The most common—ignorant and honestly stupid—reason for not implementing it has been “it’s easy to bypass”. Mind you, people were spamming the living hell out of the servers with the most egregious things that could’ve easily been blocked and prevented.
It’s an obvious vouch for me, but I highly doubt this will ever happen with the mindset some folks have.
EDIT:
I’d also like to add that there really can’t be many false positives to a basic chat filter. If someone’s message is blocked because it detects something, then it probably shouldn’t be said. In the event that there are legitimate false positives, we literally have a team of developers that can more than likely fix the issue.
Using *potential* false positives as a reason to not implement something as simple as a basic chat filter is absolutely ridiculous. Y’all might as well stop updating TF because WHAT IF something doesn’t work like y’all want it to? It’s not like you can make adjustments to plugins or anything…
Also, admins don’t possess the capability of a computer nor are they online 24/7. They cannot always be there to stop someone from saying something. This chat also is sent into Discord, so that chat history is saved in more than one place. No one wants to be on a server where the chat has to be cleared constantly and is slammed with notifications about people being muted. Let admins deal with the people who attempt to bypass the chat filter, not make them the literal chat filter.
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I would like to say, while I don't know much about if it would be possible but when doing ctrl+f you can search for exact words by searching " phrase " instead of "phrase" which might be possible with filters also to help prevent false positives (admittedly does have the downside of if they dont use spaces)
tl;dr i feel like that was a big block of text
" bad word " instead of "bad word"
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ill only vouch for a VERY basic filter that does whole ass words that people would get in shit for on this server anyway.
i dont ever want to notice this shit when im screaming in chat as per business usual
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Vouch or slurs that are clearly derogatory, racist or homophobic in nature. Don't see any harm in auto-moderating this (kinda surprised this isn't already a thing). It's the bare minimum so IMO not applying it because it's "easily bypassed" just shows we aren't bothered to do the bare minimum.
