Would like to add that as someone active in chat at the time, nobody really said anything at all. I made a little joke in reply to what he said but everyone seemed to know he was joking.
Discord Ban Appeal - shdwo
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Shdwo -
August 9, 2021 at 4:40 PM -
Closed
Please Note: The TotalFreedom Forum has now been put into a read-only mode. Total Freedom has now closed down and will not be returning in any way, shape or form. It has been a pleasure to lead this community and I wish you all the best for your futures.
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↩ fssp I think the context you're lacking is how far after that original message the "I was only joking card" was pulled in what I feel is a shite attempt at covering his own arse.
So let me also then make it clear, "I am joking" is not a good enough excuse to claim the rules do not apply to you. It never has been and never will be. If you threatened to rob a bank or murder someone and then when you hear someone going "You know you can't do that, it's illegal" you go "Oh but I'm just joking" it doesn't generally tend to fly.
But in case that's not enough, let's go a bit further up in the chat... Excuse the fact you can't see him joking, it doesn't all fit on even my 4K Screen for a screen grab so you'll have to work out the overlap...
I think it's pretty fucking obvious he's being racist and transphobic... He may then 1-2 mins later have gone "Oh it's a joke" but that doesn't make it right, or frankly cut it for me.
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The fact I have to scroll off my screen to see it was part of my point. But doesn't detract from the point of "It's breaking the rules if it's a joke or not..."
QuoteIt's a pretty good comparison I think... It seems to be exactly the behaviour exhibited here.
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object but vouch for the ban to be a temp ban not a perm ban
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↩ @'Ryan' this is true, but isn't the whole point of an appeal not to say "I didn't do that, unban me" but to say "Yes, i did that, but i would still like to return to the community". Thats how we handle Indefinite Ban Appeals, I don't see why we wouldn't handle this in the same way, after all, this is an indefinite ban from the discord. If this appeal was made too soon for you to think of it like that, thats understandable, but I am still going to point this out
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Object, whether or not it was a joke you still shouldn’t be saying those things lol.
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↩ DragonSlayer2189 Generally speaking yes, that is the case of appeals. The general exception to that rule is where it is a section 1 offence, which I'm unsure if this actually would fall into, I'd have to go check the Discord T&C's properly.
But equally yes, I think it's an absolute piss take that the ban is being appealed at this time less than 12 hours after it was issued.
QuoteAnd as I said, it was nothing more than "a part" of my point.
Quote↩ Shdwo However, the rule states I have to be discriminating against, harassing or insulting an individual due to their race / religion etc. In any other scenario where "I hate blacks" was said out of the blue, this would 100% fall under this rule. This isn't the case for my ban though, there was context, and I made it clear I wasn't serious about it / there was no meaning behind it.
I'm not a racist, and I would never go out of my way to discriminate against someone with a different race / religion / sexual preference to me.
Context only gets you so far here... And frankly, every time I read the chat back, it just continues to make me more and more confident that this is a justified ban...
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I'm going to switch to an object because I realized that this punishment was from today, wait like a month and then appeal.
me being a dumbass read 9/8/2021 and thought oh, september 8th, wait but its august, that means it must have been last year. i am dumb.
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↩ @'Ryan' It makes no sense for a subsequent message to be construed as an “attempt to cover one’s own arse” if the message had been sent prior to any punishment having been exacted on the player, meaning that they clarified their jokes being just that—in jest—before you had decided to ban them from your community. By merit of the period when they had sent that message, it is not much of an excuse; they are simply making clear to an audience that knows as well as they do that what they had said was in jest.
Finally, you did not ban them for making dumb jokes on the topic of racism and other -isms, however you banned them for "discriminating against, harassing, or insulting a person based on their race, sexual preference, gender, or age" which is something that they are plainly not guilty of as there is no corresponding party that has been discriminated against in this case… from what I have seen, everybody that was present during their conversation understood that this player was joking about.
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I'm not really sure
Anyway, I agree with mattlawn. I vouch for unbanning him in no more than a week
But we won't go anywhere if we don't keep calm so no more sassy jokes in here, please
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↩ DragonSlayer2189 me being a dumbass read 9/8/2021 and thought oh, september 8th, wait but its august, that means it must have been last year. i am dumb.
You’re even dumber than you say if you can’t read the year “2021” and come to the conclusion that the punishment took place during this year and not the last year.
I do not understand why they should file the same appeal later in the year as if the merits of their punishment would strengthen or lessen during that time, as they wouldn’t. The punishment seems faulty and the universal rule is that if a moderator on a community has improperly punished you, the appeal for that punishment should be filed on the same day.
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↩ fssp It makes no sense for a subsequent message to be construed as an “attempt to cover one’s own arse” if the message had been sent prior to any punishment having been exacted on the player, meaning that they clarified their jokes being just that—in jest—before you had decided to ban them from your community. By merit of the period when they had sent that message, it is not much of an excuse; they are simply making clear to an audience that knows as well as they do that what they had said was in jest.
The TLDR of my response is - I disagree, I've stated I think it's "ass covering" and I stand by that. Else I wouldn't have issued the ban.
Quote↩ fssp Finally, you did not ban them for making dumb jokes on the topic of racism and other -isms, however you banned them for "discriminating against, harassing, or insulting a person based on their race, sexual preference, gender, or age" which is something that they are plainly not guilty of as there is no corresponding party that has been discriminated against in this case… from what I have seen, everybody that was present during their conversation understood that this player was joking about.
The rule in my view (And given I think I re-worded if not wrote that one) exactly this case. Let me help you out.
Racism
Quoteprejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
Transphobia
Quotedislike of or prejudice against transsexual or transgender people.
If you want to argue that it doesn't meet the bar for a section 2 offence that I issued the ban under that's fine, I'd encourage you to read the Discord community guidelines, which must be followed to comply with the discord terms of service, which to breach is a section 1 offence, which makes the ban indef with no grounds to appeal... I'll give you a hint, this is the first part of it:
Quote- Do not organize, participate in, or encourage harassment of others. Disagreements happen and are normal, but continuous, repetitive, or severe negative comments may cross the line into harassment and are not okay.
I think me issuing this as a section 2 ban is pretty reasonable, and as far as I am still concerned, this behaviour was out of line and unacceptable. I am sick of people making shitty excuses to be horrible people.
Provide evidence that the ban didn't happen or grounds that a lesson has been learnt, because I'm seeing neither, and I'm gonna let you in on a secret, you can't learn your lesson as far as I'm concerned less than 12 hours after you were banned, that's just called getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar...
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After a brief peak around the discord, I have found numerous examples of people committing the same actions that warranted shdwo's ban, all in a "joking" manner. Going off Ryans logic of, "It's breaking the rules if it's a joke or not...", all of these statements should warrant some sort of punishment.
https://discordapp.com/channels/76965…026066947375124
https://discordapp.com/channels/76965…540946290475008
https://discordapp.com/channels/76965…847131727061062
In all of these examples, (excluding tropicalSharks statement), it is painfully clear that what has been said, has been said in a joking manner. The only contrast in these otherwise similar situations, is the execution of shdwo's attempt at joking around. Because both shrimp and anzukyu both made it apperent that what they said was in an amusing manner, the community did not react the way they did when shdwo essentially made the same joke. The user tropicalShark didn't even make it clear he was messing about and it wasn't until he said the hard R (which was made public by red) that he received any severe punishments. (I believe he received a temporary mute prior to this event).
My main takeaway in this is that, taking into account what Ryan has stated, if shdwo is to be banned for this, then I think it would only be fair if we did the same to shrimp and anzukyu (including the many others that remain unlisted). I do not believe that shdwo was attempting to be malicious with his words, however I understand why this action was taken. For now, I will be voting neutral
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↩ burger After a brief peak around the discord, I have found numerous examples of people committing the same actions that warranted shdwo's ban, all in a "joking" manner. Going off Ryans logic of, "It's breaking the rules if it's a joke or not...", all of these statements should warrant some sort of punishment.
https://discordapp.com/channels/76965…026066947375124
https://discordapp.com/channels/76965…540946290475008
https://discordapp.com/channels/76965…847131727061062
In all of these examples, (excluding tropicalSharks statement), it is painfully clear that what has been said, has been said in a joking manner. The only contrast in these otherwise similar situations, is the execution of shdwo's attempt at joking around. Because both shrimp and anzukyu both made it apperent that what they said was in an amusing manner, the community did not react the way they did when shdwo essentially made the same joke. The user tropicalShark didn't even make it clear he was messing about and it wasn't until he said the hard R (which was made public by red) that he received any severe punishments. (I believe he received a temporary mute prior to this event).
My main takeaway in this is that, taking into account what Ryan has stated, if shdwo is to be banned for this, then I think it would only be fair if we did the same to shrimp and anzukyu (including the many others that remain unlisted).
While a valid point, it's not valid as an argument for why it's acceptable. If breaking the rules is reported and it's reported in a timely manner (Like this was) appropriate action can be taken. The links won't open without logging in, but raise it with a Discord mod if you think they are recent enough that it is relevant still (Ie not months ago)
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yeah that's a HUGE object. I absolutely do not tolerate delinquency, racism and hate speech. This community tries to create a relatively safe space and this doesn't help that.