@Shdwo#15086 not true just about all mbs including myself applied for more power back then because we wanted to have //limit -1 and //brush when the normal player base didn’t
it’s a title and a recognition of trust which should be rewarded with more permissions like it has been in the past
@UnderTails#15088 And I have no intention of doing so... The FreeOP Server should be allowing as much access to all players than possible, not creating needless hierarchy for the sake of it.
MB is a title, and while I know there are some differences, and I intend long term to reduce those, and you have your own world which I get, and is a tad different, especially when it gets moved on to it's own dedicated private server, I have no intention to grant the MB Title additional FreeOP permissions any time soon... I see no need to do so without creating pointless differences between some OP's and others...
@wild1145#15090 it’s not a hierarchy, mbs don’t believe were better than normal players we are just players who work hard in building and are given a rank for it along with some more permissions.
it doesn’t make sense why you think mbs are less trustworthy with nbt
admins have nbt even though it’s much easier to make an admin application
@UnderTails#15091
@UnderTails#15089 all mbs including myself applied for more power back then because we wanted to have
That is the literal definition of creating a hierarchy...
The point is not a point of trust, it's an issue that you are an OP, not an admin. MB is a title, and not a rank.
The MB Title can be given out with no application process, with no oversight, and with no checks and balances, it's not something that frequently happens, but is much easier to do with titles than ranks.
The point here is you, and any MB Which is not also an admin, is an OP. We should be treating all of the OP's with equal access to the server. The MB title is there to recognise players that contribute to the server, and should never have been given to individuals that wanted it just for extra perms, especially if they don't then contribute back to the server in some meaningful way (And I'm not saying you specifically have / have not, I'm just saying generally as far as I'm concerned).
If we want to allow NBT paste for MB's, then someone needs to suggest a good way we can do it for all OP's, once we have that, I'd be happy to have that discussion and push for that as a solution, as that's actually solving the issue, otherwise we just end up with needless ranks and titles that have subtly different permissions, and creates a shit experience for new players who then just apply for the same reason you claim you and everyone else did, despite then not giving anything back to the server which was the entire point of the title originally
@wild1145#15092 the mbs built a whole hub for the server which we did in a span of a month
That isn’t nothing.
we haven’t been given any new projects in the past 6 months to do,
Because you haven’t requested any.
giving mbs nbt paste isn’t going to divide the server into a hierarchy, nor is it even that big of a deal
mbs are just ops, but ops who work for the server in building for it, and who have our own world only we can use.
we all want ops to have nbt paste but it’s not looking likely to ever happen
so until then
We think mbs deserve this right because they are the builders of this server, and it is not an easy task becoming one which justifies trust, if it doesn’t do it for you in the trust category we should have a different role that takes even more effort to get just so we can have building rights.
It shouldn’t be that you need to be an admin to have any difference than an op.
and it shouldn’t be that the official builders of our server need to apply for admin to have these building permissions.
Read my full response before you reply to this one
As a Server Liason who at this point is very worried about our playerbase and current player retention, I will say this -
Our server claims to be a building server. We do not have the barest of essential building plugins, we do not allow our trusted builders with basic building commands and tools, we do not have a good way to protect player's builds and what I'm seeing now is we don't even have respect for the players who make TF home.
There is absolutely nothing stopping our builders from leaving this server and going to another one. In the past, what has stopped our builders leaving is their inherent recognition and respect as a builder - and it seems that now that is also redundant by branding our trusted and skilled builders as mere OPs.
That makes it sound like they are expendable. Let me tell all of you MBs, you are not expendable. We value your work significantly, and we thank you for choosing TF to be the home of your builds.
I'm absolutely positive that wild1145 is working on fixing all of these issues for you. While I cannot guarantee a date for these fixes, I can assure you that they will come - and when they do come they will be much better than any quick fix we can roll out right now.
@UnderTails#15095 Because you haven’t requested any.
Ryan has requested the ECD and AECD to rebrand the hub from its festive theme to a neutral theme. That was not done even remotely in time, however I now suspect that you were not even aware of this; so the fault with that lies on Lykhant.
@UnderTails#15095 I never said the hub was nothing, I said the list of things I gave to the ECD back in January, I've seen no work progressed on, because there was a lot of things that needed tweaking in the hub.
@UnderTails#15095 giving mbs nbt paste isn’t going to divide the server into a hierarchy, nor is it even that big of a deal
Yes, it literally is, I don't understand why you're not getting that? And I disagree, I think it is a significant shift in our historic position as a server, and is absolutely not something I will encourage, endorse or allow.
@UnderTails#15095 mbs are just ops, but ops who work for the server in building for it, and who have our own world only we can use.
I never disagreed with that, if you'd read my replies in full, you'd note I mentioned that as an exception to the rule. Long term that will be moved out of the FreeOP server, and you'll have no additional perms beyond that of a standard op in FreeOP servers.
@UnderTails#15095 we all want ops to have nbt paste but it’s not looking likely to ever happen
so until then
We think mbs deserve this right because they are the builders of this server, and it is not an easy task becoming one which justifies trust, if it doesn’t do it for you in the trust category we should have a different role that takes even more effort to get just so we can have building rights.
Yet nobody's ever asked for it, or gave a solution on how we could make it happen...
Also again, go back and read my replies, it's trivial to get MB Compared to admin, there are no official and managed requirements, and it's at the total wim of who ever the ECD happens to be at the time.
@UnderTails#15095 It shouldn’t be that you need to be an admin to have any difference than an op.
It absolutely should, that's my entire point.
@UnderTails#15095 and it shouldn’t be that the official builders of our server need to apply for admin to have these building permissions.
And as I've said, MB's need no such access to complete their role as an MB, we have dedicated build servers for that exact reason.
@UnderTails#15095 Read my full response before you reply to this one
If I've missed something specific then feel free to say, I do read the full responses, but we keep going over the same topic over and over and over again, and there's only so many times we can both do that.
Also for the record, this was the message I sent to the ECD and AECD back at the start of Jan before we removed the festive hub, because I was waiting on the MB Team to make changes on the server I'd given them which had been made on the festive hub. I haven't given any more work since then given I am STILL waiting for this to be done...
@Shdwo#15078 Yeah they do. I've changed my vote anyway.
@wild1145#15098 Yes, it literally is, I don't understand why you're not getting that? And I disagree, I think it is a significant shift in our historic position as a server, and is absolutely not something I will encourage, endorse or allow.
How? Is an OP going to see an MB properly pasting a chest or a banner and cry? No. Is it a permission everyone should have yes? Is it a permission everyone has? No. If anyone should have NBT paste it should be the builders
@wild1145#15098 I never disagreed with that, if you'd read my replies in full, you'd note I mentioned that as an exception to the rule. Long term that will be moved out of the FreeOP server, and you'll have no additional perms beyond that of a standard op in FreeOP servers.
???
@wild1145#15098 Yet nobody's ever asked for it, or gave a solution on how we could make it happen...
This has been asked for many times, but i’ll make a new thread for brainstorming ideas since you think it’s never been done.Also again, go back and read my replies, it's trivial to get MB Compared to admin, there are no official and managed requirements, and it's at the total wim of who ever the ECD happens to be at the time.
MB has no requirements? You need to be a good builder which is a skill not that many minecraft players have. What are the requirements for admin? The requirements are being a player on here and not being hated by
@wild1145#15098 And as I've said, MB's need no such access to complete their role as an MB, we have dedicated build servers for that exact reason.
This is not true. Do you believe that MBs solely work in the other server? I get requested all the time by admins to help them build stuff for events, and I could use nbt paste to help me in my job of that
@redeastwood#15096 As a Server Liason who at this point is very worried about our playerbase and current player retention, I will say this -
Our server claims to be a building server. We do not have the barest of essential building plugins, we do not allow our trusted builders with basic building commands and tools
So I will say, I think the claim that we are a building server, is a very new one... We historically claimed to be FreeOP and not a lot more, you could do anything and everything, a lot of our player base actually used to orientate around PVP and hacked clients rather than building. I've been concerned about our branding as a building server because as you say, we're not setup for that, and frankly I suspect there are a million other servers out there that can do a better job...
@redeastwood#15096 There is absolutely nothing stopping our builders from leaving this server and going to another one.
I agree, again, part of the concern with calling a FreeOP Server a building server...
@redeastwood#15096 In the past, what has stopped our builders leaving is their inherent recognition and respect as a builder - and it seems that now that is also redundant by branding our trusted and skilled builders as mere OPs.
I disagree, we have NEVER historically separated OP's into "Just OP's" and MB's, the MB rank was only ever historically given to players who built maps which would be hosted on the server as the main world, and was a distinguished title to reflect that. Not some reflection that you are a good / average / whatever builder generally... I think that's the key difference here, between building for the server, and building personal projects, and that's the key difference we need to remember.
@redeastwood#15096 That makes it sound like they are expendable.
Only if we are calling our entire player-base expendable, which we both know isn't the case, and I'm sure wasn't the intended messaging there...
@redeastwood#15096 I'm absolutely positive that @Ryan is working on fixing all of these issues for you. While I cannot guarantee a date for these fixes, I can assure you that they will come - and when they do come they will be much better than any quick fix we can roll out right now.
The team (Mostly dev team) are working as fast as they can to resolve the issues we have, based on criticality and impact. I've not yet seen a good proposal on how we can allow NBT to be used by all players, and if I did and it was viable, it'd be up there as a pretty high priority issue...
We publish regular updates on Discord with the release plans for TFM and the other plugins, and I'm working on adding other community requested plugins as quickly as we can get them in a good state to add, but due to the nature of FreeOP, often these can take some time to get customised and working properly... Especially when they're smaller plugins or designed for smaller servers where everyone just trusts everyone else!
I'm also happy to be challenged on the prioritisation of tickets, if there are features that the community think are more important than others, I have no issue making changes, I've gone based on what I feel the importance is, and what the community have said on suggestions, but that can change as we go through, and I'm working with Fleek now that he's in place as the ELD to prioritise the tickets as we start looking at releases so we can get the stuff the community gives a crap about released as soon as it's possible to do so.
@wild1145#15099 Also for the record, this was the message I sent to the ECD and AECD back at the start of Jan before we removed the festive hub, because I was waiting on the MB Team to make changes on the server I'd given them which had been made on the festive hub. I haven't given any more work since then given I am STILL waiting for this to be done...
it has never been announced in the mb section of the discord so you can blame the ECD for not us.
@Tizz#15102 Are the delays on these projects and Lykhant's resignation related? If so filling in the vacant positions with active executives should be a priority
I don't believe so, certainly not directly related. Lykhant as I understand had a lot of other commitments that took priority, which is absolutely fair. I suspect this was more an issue of lack of time to coordinate, and then forgetting about it, which we all do.
@UnderTails#15103 How? Is an OP going to see an MB properly pasting a chest or a banner and cry? No. Is it a permission everyone should have yes? Is it a permission everyone has? No. If anyone should have NBT paste it should be the builders
Some OP's have one set of permissions, and another set of OP's have slightly more permissions... I'm not sure how else I can explain it... And actually yes, I suspect a number of OP's would be pretty pissed and end up applying for the title as you've said, just to have the perms... Defeating the point of the title.
@UnderTails#15103 MB has no requirements? You need to be a good builder which is a skill not that many minecraft players have. What are the requirements for admin? The requirements are being a player on here and not being hated by
MB's can be appointed by the ECD without any formal application / process... The application process again is a relatively new thing in the scheme of things, my point is there is a set known quantity with how admin applications work and are processed, and they ultimately come via me for changes directly or indirectly, that process is not at all the same for the MB processes.
@UnderTails#15103 This is not true. Do you believe that MBs solely work in the other server? I get requested all the time by admins to help them build stuff for events, and I could use nbt paste to help me in my job of that
I believe you should have the same permissions as every other OP on the FreeOP Server, and any additional tools / plugins / perms you need should be only configured on a dedicated project build server, which is exactly the model we moved to.
@UnderTails#15105 I'm not blaming you or anyone else, I'm giving you my perspective on things... That's all I can do, I tell the exec's to something, I expect it sorted out. If that message isn't passed down then that's equally not something I can mind read...
Object
@wild1145#15106 Some OP's have one set of permissions, and another set of OP's have slightly more permissions... I'm not sure how else I can explain it... And actually yes, I suspect a number of OP's would be pretty pissed and end up applying for the title as you've said, just to have the perms... Defeating the point of the title.
I think OPs are more confused and mad when they find out MBs don’t have these rights already and would be more confused that MBs are the same thing as OP in your definition. They think there’s a hierarchy even though you want there not to be even though there is. Which doesn’t make sense but that’s the point
@wild1145#15106 MB's can be appointed by the ECD without any formal application / process... The application process again is a relatively new thing in the scheme of things, my point is there is a set known quantity with how admin applications work and are processed, and they ultimately come via me for changes directly or indirectly, that process is not at all the same for the MB processes.
There are currently no MBs appointed by the ECD defeating the whole point of this. MB applications are tougher than admin applications because you’re at the judgement of the whole server if your builds are good enough.
@wild1145#15106 I believe you should have the same permissions as every other OP on the FreeOP Server, and any additional tools / plugins / perms you need should be only configured on a dedicated project build server, which is exactly the model we moved to.
Not having nbt paste is making MBs not able to complete their job on the main server because we can’t complete our jobs properly for events or other dedicated projects on the main server. We do it all the time. I’ve built a build battle hub, a spleef arena, and many more
bowie built an entire easter egg hunt map, and we do this type of thing all the time.
@wild1145#15107 UnderTails I'm not blaming you or anyone else, I'm giving you my perspective on things... That's all I can do, I tell the exec's to something, I expect it sorted out. If that message isn't passed down then that's equally not something I can mind read...
Is there even any ECD right now? We had weekly meetings in october and november about the hub project but ever since then nobody has asked us to build anything. And the master builder announcements in discord has been empty.
@Tizz#15082 If VulnerabilityPatcher gets configured to a satisfactory level so that OPs can also paste NBT without crashing the server I'll be glad to ditch this suggestion as it will be pointless.
VulnerabilityPatcher can’t check for WorldEdit, and if it could, it is most likely going to slow down to check each block in large edits.
WorldEdit doesn’t offer any API that we could use.
@UnderTails#15077
@UnderTails#15089 MB is not a recognition of trust
