Make the TotalFreedomMod more flexible for server owners

I Vouch. The joke commands and extra 'features' serve no useful purpose and as far as I know, nobody wanted or suggested them in the first place. because features like "4chan mode" don't even do anything useful other than format chat to "look like 4chan." Their removal is also very beneficial for anyone else wants to use the TFM because they obviously don't need these commands. Also, by allowing messages to be customisable and consistent, people will not need to recompile the plugin, especially if they are not literate in those aspects. By also allowing messages to be customisable, it is now possible for users to customise plugin messages without having to compile the plugin, but instead, simply edit a config file and reload the plugin.

I object. TFM should not be modified for a generic freedom server. That would, in it self, make TF a generic freedom server. If you want that to happen it should be in a separate fork and not affect the main TFM.

The shop can be disabled, not sure why it should be split out since it's 100% optional to use.

As I said about the useless features, that was going to be done. I already laid a roadmap out for you.

Customizable messages are a thing in Plex. I tried to make this in TFM but it failed. It was simply too late as the amount of messages in TFM was absolutely huge and would take an extraordinarily long time to make them all customizable. That seems like a waste of development time which is why it was going to be done right the first time in Plex.

What do I think?
I think you should think about what you're going to say before you post it.

Vouch, I've brought this up once. I think this has been one of our main issues. TFM and TotalFreedom should be separate. I'm pretty sure this is how it was at one point, which is why there were so many freedom servers when TF was at its peak.

Vouch, especially for the reddit, I had to make a reddit just for my tfm test server because otherwise it would flood my logs with errors. I think discord integration is fine, as long as you can enable or disable it, but there is still a lot of random shit in tfm that just doesn't need to be there (see /releaseparrots, /bird, /curse, etc.)

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@DragonSlayer2189#1491 Vouch, especially for the reddit, I had to make a reddit just for my tfm test server because otherwise it would flood my logs with errors. I think discord integration is fine, as long as you can enable or disable it, but there is still a lot of random shit in tfm that just doesn't need to be there (see /releaseparrots, /bird, /curse, etc.)

Yeah this was annoying. I was going to outright remove Reddit because I couldn't find a way to disable it. It kept requiring JRAW whether you used it or not. Seems to be a new bug that all the plugins have to be there or else it wont work ever since we went Aero-free.

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@videogamesm12#1470 Remove useless features like Reddit integration, 4chan mode, and several joke commands. These aren't required to run and serve no use other than for a one-off joke. If I recall correctly, one of the joke commands was literally a school shooting joke. Useless things like these do nothing but bloat the plugin even further and are hardly used.

Could you compile a list of commands you think need to be removed and raise them in another suggestion? That would be a good way to start this process as that way it's transparent with what's being removed and why

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@videogamesm12#1470 Make messages customizable and consistent. Judging from some of the limited bits of source code from Plex that I've seen, this was going to be a thing in Plex but since that isn't likely going to be finished due to recent events, this idea should be implemented into the TotalFreedomMod. I actually have attempted to implement this in the past on both the 5.0 codebase (on a scrapped fork of the plugin that I was working on for my own server) and more recently the 4.3 codebase. Both attempts were successful, but somewhat hackish. As a server owner, I don't want to have to recompile the plugin if I want to change what a command says.

I agree with this, and I think it may even be beneficial in the longer term to look to work on some sort of actual multi-lingual solution as well to allow for translated messages.

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@videogamesm12#1470 Move the shop to a separate plugin. Not every server owner wants to have a shop on their server. This isn't a core feature that's needed to run a free-op server.

I think for now given the shop is part of TF it does make sense to keep it as part of TFM, though I agree it's certainly not the ideal design and we probably will want for various reasons to split it out in the future, but that's probably not a job for today.

I object.

The TotalFreedomMod is for the TotalFreedom server. The github is open source so if a server owner would like to use it I don't see why they can't just edit it themselves? Seems like we're focusing on making TFM more compatible for other servers than fixing it on our server...

object lol this is TotalFreedom and therefore TFM is edited for us. if server owners don't like this, they are more than welcome to make a fork.

@fionn#2233
@Luke#2247

TotalFreedom and TotalFreedomMod use to be separate. TFM wasn't always coded just for the server (IIRC). That is one of the reasons why (I think) TF actually thrived, because of the plugin (and the proper development it received). Now it is bloated and geared more towards just the TF server, which makes no one want to use it for their own freedom server. The days TF was hitting maximum players was when a ton of freedom servers were popping up everywhere. That is just how I see it.

TFM, the one everyone would be downloading to use on their own server, should be generic. That way people can add whatever they want. TF should have its own repository that includes these kinds of features (such as shop or the Reddit integrations). The basic TFM repository should just be barebones free op. All these other additions should just be separate plugins, so the people using the plugins have the choice to add some, all, or none of the other features.

What I am pretty much saying is we should be encouraging people to start their own freedom servers. Removing a bunch of features and allowing server owners (or developers) to have the choice (without needing to edit the code themselves) to include these other features would help with that.

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@Xen#2276 use to be separate.

Keyword is 'used to be'

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@Xen#2276 TFM wasn't always coded just for the server

And now it is

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@Xen#2276 That is one of the reasons why (I think) TF actually thrived, because of the plugin (and the proper development it received)

Nah lol people don't join TF, see TFM isn't friendly to their server, and leave again

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@Xen#2276 The days TF was hitting maximum players was when a ton of freedom servers were popping up everywhere. That is just how I see it.

The servers were a result of TF being popular, not the other way round

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@Xen#2276 What I am pretty much saying is we should be encouraging people to start their own freedom servers.

Why?

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@Luke#2288 Keyword is 'used to be'

Doesn't mean we can't revert back to the way it was? Seems it was more efficient before.

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@Luke#2288 And now it is

That is literally the issue this thread is trying to address. TFM is not meant to be geared towards just TF.

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@Luke#2288 Nah lol people don't join TF, see TFM isn't friendly to their server, and leave again

That is not what I said.

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@Luke#2288 The servers were a result of TF being popular, not the other way round

Yes, I know, but seeing freedom servers popping up everywhere is a sign that TF and TFM are doing well.

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@Luke#2288 Why?

Because having different freedom servers would be good publicity. In a way, it is free advertising. The more people using the plugin, the better (pretty sure that is why it was made open-source). Again, it is a sign that TFM is doing well and when TFM is doing well, then TF is probably doing well.

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@Xen#2289 Doesn't mean we can't revert back to the way it was? Seems it was more efficient before.

Disagree. I think it's just fine as it is.

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@Xen#2289 That is literally the issue this thread is trying to address. TFM is not meant to be geared towards just TF.

According to who? You? Didn't the plugin get created for TotalFreedom?

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@Xen#2289 That is not what I said.

Then what did you say? What I saw was 'TF thrived because TFM was geared for other servers'?

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@Xen#2289 Yes, I know, but seeing freedom servers popping up everywhere is a sign that TF and TFM are doing well.

So if the servers are a result of TF doing well why do we need to change TFM? Why not work on retention for TF?

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@Xen#2289 Because having different freedom servers would be good publicity. In a way, it is free advertising. The more people using the plugin, the better (pretty sure that is why it was made open-source). Again, it is a sign that TFM is doing well and when TFM is doing well, then TF is probably doing well.

Disagree. People making their own server aren't going to be advertising for TF. You keep referring back to how other servers are a sign that TF is doing well but again people don't join TF, see 'ooh wow the plugin is good for use outside' and stay on the server? People also don't leave because they can't use TFM? You seem to be fixated with solving an issue regarding playercount with a solution that will change absolutely nothing?

Luke#2299 Total Freedom definitely thrived when it was used on other servers. Back in 2015 there were a handful of other freedom servers owned and operated by TF players- and any publicity they received in turn gave TF publicity. So @Xen#2276 is right in the fact that TF was much more successful when the mod was used on other servers.

However, I do not think that reason there aren’t many TFM based servers is due to an unfriendly mod, but rather the lack of players.
Vouch

note Luke there is no need to be so hostile, this is just a suggestion

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@Luke#2299 According to who? You?

The first sentence of the thread.

"I have a couple of ideas for changes that should be made to the TotalFreedomMod itself to make it more flexible for server owners."

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@Luke#2299 Didn't the plugin get created for TotalFreedom?

Yes it was made for TotalFreedom, but it was made open-source so others can use the plugin, but no one wants to use a bloated plugin (hence why there aren't any other freedom servers).

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@Luke#2299 Then what did you say? What I saw was 'TF thrived because TFM was geared for other servers'?

I was referring to others wanting to own a freedom server.

"because of the plugin (and the proper development it received)"

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@Luke#2299 So if the servers are a result of TF doing well why do we need to change TFM? Why not work on retention for TF?

Servers popping up are a result of TFM doing well. TF cannot do well unless TFM is doing well... (notice how TF is struggling right now and TFM is not doing very well)

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@Luke#2299 Disagree. People making their own server aren't going to be advertising for TF. You keep referring back to how other servers are a sign that TF is doing well but again people don't join TF, see 'ooh wow the plugin is good for use outside' and stay on the server? People also don't leave because they can't use TFM? You seem to be fixated with solving an issue regarding playercount with a solution that will change absolutely nothing?

I am aware that this alone will not fix the player count issue, but it is a factor. It is your opinion that it will not change anything, but historically speaking, that is just not true. No one said people leave because they cannot use TFM. You do not seem to understand what I am saying.

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@redeastwood#2302 However, I do not think that reason there aren’t many TFM based servers is due to an unfriendly mod, but rather the lack of players.

I think it is a mixture of both. TFM is bloated and has issues (as many current and previous TF developers have said) and the server is lacking a player base.

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@Xen#2276 TotalFreedom and TotalFreedomMod use to be separate. TFM wasn't always coded just for the server (IIRC).

Unfortunately not quite the case.

TFM was and always had originally been intended for TF's exclusive use. Other servers did pick it up and use it.

The split between TFM and TF came when Marco and Commodore took over doing a lot of the dev and refused to follow the existing repo's standards, so created TFPatches and by extension the project we now have today. The original TFM for the TF server was maintained in parallel for a short amount of time but I frankly lost interest, and TFPatches was used for the purpose only for TF.

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@Xen#2276 The days TF was hitting maximum players was when a ton of freedom servers were popping up everywhere. That is just how I see it.

While true, I'm not entirely sure there is a relationship between them, and I say that as someone who used to run a fairly successful freedom server with TheCJGCJG and Varuct... I think it may well have just been that era and the fact TF was naturally popular and attracted a lot of players so people wanted to make copies, where we've declined in popularity over the years (I think anyway) that's naturally evaporated.

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@Xen#2276 TFM, the one everyone would be downloading to use on their own server, should be generic. That way people can add whatever they want. TF should have its own repository that includes these kinds of features (such as shop or the Reddit integrations). The basic TFM repository should just be barebones free op. All these other additions should just be separate plugins, so the people using the plugins have the choice to add some, all, or none of the other features.

I sort of agree, but ultimately the current day TFM is designed for TF and only TF, if people want something generic they should be using the original TotalFreedom repo but even then that was always geared towards TF.

I agree that some things should be spit out of TFM and into their own plugins, but that's more because we identified TFM and it's config was massive and frankly too big years ago and it's only grown since then...

@wild1145#2336 Well in that case, do you think it would be beneficial to separate TFM and TF and make TFM generic (whilst still making the other features available via other plugins)? Also, the old TFM repo is extremely out of date (the latest version for it is 1.12).

@Xen#2338 In an ideal world yes, we'd split them back out, but in reality it's a waste of very limited developer effort. TFM should be built to meet the ongoing needs of TF, and if other servers need to adapt it then so be it.

And yes, I know the original TFM is out of date, as I say, I was the only person maintaining it in the end and gave up.

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@videogamesm12#1470 Move the shop to a separate plugin. Not every server owner wants to have a shop on their server. This isn't a core feature that's needed to run a free-op server.

So this suggestion I'm going to ultimately decline, the shop is part of TFM and is able to be toggled off in config which should be more than good enough for people...

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@videogamesm12#1470 Remove useless features like Reddit integration, 4chan mode, and several joke commands. These aren't required to run and serve no use other than for a one-off joke. If I recall correctly, one of the joke commands was literally a school shooting joke. Useless things like these do nothing but bloat the plugin even further and are hardly used.

These are being worked through at least in terms of what we need on the server, most of this has already been removed but if there are other things that need to be removed then please raise specific suggestions as that'll be the best way to keep running things.

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@videogamesm12#1470 Make messages customizable and consistent. Judging from some of the limited bits of source code from Plex that I've seen, this was going to be a thing in Plex but since that isn't likely going to be finished due to recent events, this idea should be implemented into the TotalFreedomMod. I actually have attempted to implement this in the past on both the 5.0 codebase (on a scrapped fork of the plugin that I was working on for my own server) and more recently the 4.3 codebase. Both attempts were successful, but somewhat hackish. As a server owner, I don't want to have to recompile the plugin if I want to change what a command says.

This is something that we'll start looking into, at least in terms of making TFM languages customisable. This will probably be a longer term project but something we can look into. FS-67 has been raised to initially investigate how we want to handle the language files.

Overall I'm going to decline the suggestion, TFM is designed to run on TF and that should always be our number 1 priority because ultimately if people want to customise the plugin they can, it's open source and I have no intentions to change that.