@Luke#11722 Someone literally posted shit on the forum, and based on their attitude they don't care either yet they only got a 2 weeks suspension.
Posting literal feces, though disgusting, is not the same as throwing around racial and homophobic slurs. You also said, and I quote "ive literally resigned then reinstated 10 days later just to argue." which shows that you don't want to be on here to be productive, but rather to troll.
@Madea#11728 The only Slur Luke had said was The f slur, Yes, he did Tease With Skating around saying the n word, But He never Actually said It. And if i am mistaken And he did say other Slurs, Please let me know.
@James#11726 Can you Help me better understand? Or Provide Evidence?
@James#11726
About the offensive behaviour.. everything that everyone throws at each other here is often taken as a joke here, including offensive behaviour. This is something that is clear as day and I've seen it, and I was as active (or more) as Luke and he was never really offensive in front of everyone during the times we were both on the Discord, in contrast to the many admins that offend each other as an apparent 'joke' in front of many OPs but never get suspended?
If he was offensive in the admin chat then this is something different as the chat which everyone can see is freedom-01, and not everyone can see the admin chat.
@chargenation1158#11729 He never Actually said It
When he was told to say the n word by paisen (as seen in the screenshots above) he essentially said it but with a different spelling. I don't care if the spelling was right or not, it's the intent and context that matters.
@Madea#11731 You are right, It is the context that does matter, But take Lyicx for example, He Said the N word, And got cancelled for it. Not even everyone was Mad at him for it, Because he learned from his mistake. But when Luke doesn't even say the Word in its entirety, And Regrets His choices, He gets suspended. I feel that Luke suspension was Mainly Just because the majority of people didn't like him, He did say A slur, But We have had much worse, And the perpetrators Got a slap on the Wrist, And Luke gets the bad end of the stick
@Luke#11719 However, another thing that contributed towards the indefinite side of the suspension was continually server-banning a user who was being a nuisance to me personally. I believe I should've handled this better, however I did report this user to several discord staff in the past and they refused to take any action other than giving him a slap on the wrist.
If you don't mind, can you actually tell us who this was?
If the staff didn't deal with this then they should have, and not just dished out a 'slap on the wrist'. Could you also provide any words from messages etc so I can look into this myself?
@chargenation1158#11732 You are right, It is the context that does matter, But take Lyicx for example, He Said the N word, And got cancelled for it. Not even everyone was Mad at him for it, Because he learned from his mistake. But when Luke doesn't even say the Word in its entirety, And Regrets His choices, He gets suspended. I feel that Luke suspension was Mainly Just because the majority of people didn't like him, He did say A slur, But We have had much worse, And the perpetrators Got a slap on the Wrist, And Luke gets the bad end of the stick
This suspension is a perfect example of the old community view of 'this guy is annoying; let's kick him out!'
@Ashaz#11733 Could you also provide any words from messages etc so I can look into this myself?
That would be helpful
@Ashaz#11734 Exactly. Thats my whole point ive been getting at this entire time!
@Ashaz#11733
So I've looked into this and talked to Luke, the guy Luke was serverbanning was Rex and Rex did seem to make Luke uncomfortable every now and then. Excuse the language here, as Luke did call Rex a 'cunt' - but given the fact that Luke was uncomfortable I think it was just out of his feelings at the time. Here's what he originally sent to Elmon.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/76…=278&height=618
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/76…=278&height=618
elmon Why was this not dealt with?
@Ashaz#11737 Can you zoom in on the First image?
@Ashaz#11737 @elmon Why was this not dealt with?
It was. Rex was read the riot act and from memory was temporarily banned from Discord for his actions.
@wild1145#11739 Rex was actually temporarily banned for being racist to me in a voice chat. That's why he was temporarily banned.
Even if Rex WAS temporarily banned for the stuff he did here, why was Luke not informed?
@Ashaz#11740 Because we don't have to inform people of what happens with their reports... We don't do it in game or anywhere else... You report something and a member of staff handles it, or doesn't if they don't feel it is appropriate.
@wild1145#11742
The two systems are completely different.
The way it's been (in my experience) is if you report something in game eventually an admin will come and deal with it, like you said.
If you report something to the EAO or the Discord Mods they usually tell you the response, this is how it's been for me and I've not had to ask. If it's not meant to be like this then it needs to be changed as it is absurd that someone who did feel uncomfortable never finds out what happened to the people that hurt them originally..
@Ashaz#11743 Not that it has anything to do with the thread, but if you report someone for something, and you don't feel action has been taken or they haven't replied, then why not just message them and ask? Or escalate it to someone more senior if you think it's being ignored... There's no need to have a million formal processes for this sort of stuff...
i do think this has derailed. im not honestly bothered about what happened and why elmon did something or not (i should clarify he did and i was just mistaken) and id rather the thread goes back on track
@wild1145#11723 For the record, and as I have said before. It was, a chat that is used for the exclusive purpose of discussing the servers management especially when I'm also in the chat, made it pretty obvious it was official.
If it was truly part of TF official platforms, pretty sure every executive has violated the conduct policy and admin policy by engaging in such words, why have I not been punished for it, who hasn't anyone?
@wild1145#11723 That's because generally speaking these things come down to judgement and those with the ability to issue those punishments are expected to use sensible judgment... We don't strictly apply "Saying thing X = Ban Y" because that's not a sensible way to run things.
I don't believe that sensible judgement has applied to cases like this one, and many more that I have personally witnessed as far as I have been here, admins violating admin policy by saying one word or another receive less punishment than others. "Saying thing X = Ban Y" - Pretty sure that's exactly what the server has been doing, if an administrator says a word which is banned by policy, they all receive the same punishment regardless if it's the n-word, f-word or whatever word that seems bad enough to call for punishment, our policies strictly apply the usage of some words and ways to punish them
And for the record, regardless of who breaks our policies shall be punished accordingly no matter what rank or popularity they have on the server. Based on my point of view, Luke's punishment was too pitty and that's all I have to say.
@simplynick#11748 If it was truly part of TF official platforms, pretty sure every executive has violated the conduct policy and admin policy by engaging in such words, why have I not been punished for it, who hasn't anyone?
If I've missed things in it then my apologies, if someone has been reported for what they've said in it and not properly punished then that's a different matter, but they should have been if it was flagged. You were punished for it, I seem to recall I removed you from your exec role over it (Or if not I certainly warned you, it's a bit hazey and it was a while back now)
@simplynick#11748 I don't believe that sensible judgement has applied to cases like this one, and many more that I have personally witnessed as far as I have been here, admins violating admin policy by saying one word or another receive less punishment than others. "Saying thing X = Ban Y" - Pretty sure that's exactly what the server has been doing, if an administrator says a word which is banned by policy, they all receive the same punishment regardless if it's the n-word, f-word or whatever word that seems bad enough to call for punishment, our policies strictly apply the usage of some words and ways to punish them
The admin issuing the punishment ultimately decides how long / the setup of that punishment, and in the case of admins the EAO has final say on all matters relating to this, there is always additional context / info that is going to have a factor, which I believe it did on this occasion just from my involvement in the suspension / bans. That's how the server should always have worked, the "Rules" are there to give us a guideline on what is acceptable and what is not, and to help give staff the framework under which to issue a sanction under, not to bind them to it and stop them doing their jobs effectively.
@wild1145#11752 I understand your second point on that matter but for our first point, I wasn't removed from the exec role for that reason, it was my conversation with Ashaz which looked unprofessional in your eyes. I actually haven't been punished for it nor did I get warned at all.
We were all focused on the person who leaked the message than the actual word from I recall, I also recall other executives who have made it very publicly clear that the TF Discord Exec chat was an unofficial part of TF which is why I thought the same and felt as if it was a safe place to speak freely without the fear of removal.
