welp america is crashing and burning

@Darth#10815

Nope. He described $2000 checks to go out "immediately", not "$600 + $1400". It's blatant that he has backtracked a multitude of times. Just last week he amended the bill to only apply for people earning below $75.000, not the original $100.000. Also the fact that it's been 2 months since the promise to "go out immediately". And no, this is not just because of republican obstructionism. Biden could've done so, so much more already.

There's a good argument to be made that the only reason why Georgia was won was because of this promise, and the fact that Biden has repeatedly backtracked won't be good for the next election. Either way, this is neglecting the fact that Biden isn't even fighting for recurring payments to Americans.

@billy7oblos#10901

Or you're a retard who thinks both sides are equally bad lol

@Miwojedk#10903 jeez guess we can't have any middle grounds here

@Miwojedk#10902 The lower threshhold for phasing out the payments was because Sen. Manchin dictated that. Manchin has a huge amount of influence, and without his vote the bill would not have passed. They really didn't have a choice. They would have gone out faster if Republicans didn't do everything in their power to oppose the bill (they unanimously voted against it).

An unfortunate side effect of an evenly divided Senate is that these compromises are going to be very frequent - but if McConnell was still majority leader, the bill as it stands would not even have been given a floor vote and Americans would recieve nothing.

you raise a good point however i think simon gets the best head, alvin does not and neither does theodore simon is the best and if you disagree you are bad biden supporter

@Darth#10906

So because a conservative Democrat doesn't agree with the proposed legislation a bill won't get passed? Wasn't the whole thing with Biden "Unity"? If the only thing stopping your party from advancing their agenda is a conservative Democrat, then you use the bully pulpit. Biden is the second most liked active politician in the US - are you claiming that Biden doesn't have the political capital to force Manchin in line? The only reason why Manchin currently has any influence on federal politics is because Biden lets him. So yes, they did indeed have a choice, but chose not to. They knew from the start that not a single Republican would vote for the stimulus bill.

So again: you are whitewashing Biden's failures and shortcomings thus far. Everything good that Biden will be doing during his 4 years has already been done via Executive Order, becuase he doesn't have the will nor political fortitude to fight for the people. Which was evident when he backtracked from $2,000 -> $1,400 and then further lowering the salary cap. As Obama's VP, Biden had first row seats to how Obamacare (Romneycare), an original Republican proposal, was still opposed by the Republicans, just because it was a Democrat who put it forth as a compromise.

The GOP know how to play chess, whilst the Democrats play checkers.

@fleshly#10904 I never claimed that any middle-grounds can't be had. But simply grandstanding and virtue-signalling by saying "I'm a centrist" is so intellectually lazy. Would you choose a middle-ground between Democrats and Republicans prior to the civil war? I'm certain that Afro-Americans today would applaud your centrism-stance. Sorry, but when the overton window has shifted so far to the right in the US that the choice is between tax cuts for the rich, and slightly-less tax cuts for the rich (+some less overt discrimination for LGBTQ+, brown people and so on), then the middle-ground option is indeed silly.

@Miwojedk#11243

Quote

@Miwojedk#11243 So because a conservative Democrat doesn't agree with the proposed legislation a bill won't get passed?

If every republican votes against it, then yes, that's how it is.

Quote

@Miwojedk#11243 Wasn't the whole thing with Biden "Unity"?

Unity among the people, and the first major legislation was a bill that has support from the majority of americans.

Quote

@Miwojedk#11243 If the only thing stopping your party from advancing their agenda is a conservative Democrat, then you use the bully pulpit

In theory a good idea, but if you piss off Manchin too much he could resign, a republican would be appointed to his seat, and we'd have Majority Leader McConnell and no major (Democrat agenda) legislation would be passed for the remainder of the 117th Congress. This is the result of a 50/50 Senate.

Quote

@Miwojedk#11243 are you claiming that Biden doesn't have the political capital to force Manchin in line? The only reason why Manchin currently has any influence on federal politics is because Biden lets him.

Because you cannot strongarm someone who has all the leverage. For the American Rescue Plan, every Republican (minus one who left for an emergency but would certainly have voted no) voted against it meaning all fifty Democrats needed to vote yes. Manchin is fiscally conservative, and openly opposed stimulus checks that weren't more targeted and of a smaller amount, but reached a compromise with the rest of his party. Americans needed help now, and while not ideal, it's better in the long run to make concessions and live to fight another day than risk stalling the bill further.

Quote

@Miwojedk#11243 The GOP know how to play chess, whilst the Democrats play checkers.

This I agree with. Manchin is screaming about "bipartisanship" which does not exist at the moment. The last ten years should tell any sane person that the Republicans will oppose anything that Democrats want out of spite, then complain that nothing has been accomplished, and using that as a reason to encourage their voters to turn out. I believe Manchin is wasting his time trying to play the game with them, when it's clear they don't want to play the game. But Americans needed help right away, and there wasn't time to put on the act of bipartisanship. Any legislation henceforth will put the will and resolve of Democrats to the test.

Still, Biden clearly learned his lesson from his VP days. When the Democrats were crafting the stimulus bill to ease the recession, they spent months "working" with Republicans on a deal, who got the bill heavily watered down, only to vote against it anyways. They didn't make the mistake of waiting this time, and most of them (albeit reluctantly) helped to speed it through. It is not a perfect bill, but I still view it as largely successful and it's very popular among Americans.

I've split a number of posts that ended up off-topic into a dedicated thread. Apologies but most of the links from the split posts won't work (Part 2,3 and 4) but that's because Flarum wouldn't let me split 100 odd posts in a single go.