Posts by zeseryu

↩  Akefu-Brewer

Well thats just not what your original post is saying. You are probably not going to be able to get the suggestion to remove voting approved. Good luck though.

↩  Akefu-Brewer

That makes more sense.

Okay so yes you are right. If you made it a rule, it would be a rule. However, this rule does not improve the average players experience, and further complicates our rules that "barely anyone reads that staff have been proven to look to when LOOKING for ways to ban players they dont like abusively" You are contradicting yourself here.

An average player wont like their house being griefed. Thats why we have rules against it.
An average player doesnt like being trolled in chat. Thats why we have rules against it.

An average player doesnt think ban appeals are legitmate so.. we make a rule to FORCE players to give reasoning to make the system a little bit more fair... ? that doesnt make sense. Doesn't the ban manager have authority over the final call? Are you calling him corrupt? maybe? who am I to say if he is or isn't. However, thats not what you are claiming. I think you believe your vote actually matters, which it doesnt.

its a pretty widely held sentiment that the rules are too complex, and adding rules that further restricts an average players experience is, in my opinion, a wrong direction to go.

↩  Akefu-Brewer

You are derailing your own original post. I would advise you to stop because you are actively breaking down your own argument by making unsupported and just wrong claims.

Instead, just stick by saying it would be nice to have more input on applications, and it will probably be approved because its a nice general idea that is obvious and people like thinking they contribute to the larger group. (the reason why some ban requests have like 10 vouches on INCREDIBLY obvious requests that are going to be accepted regardless if anyone voted or not)

↩  Akefu-Brewer

Your entire paragraph (sentence?) just doesn't make sense. Im sorry if im not understanding correctly.

Yes. Please do whatever you want on TF. Join the server. We need players. Please. Join. The. Server. Look its so fun.
However, if what you do does not fall within our rules, you will get punished. So act accordingly.

(This is slightly comedic now that im looking at your post history. You cannot actually join the server because you are indefinitely banned. In your appeals you claimed shdwo is biased (and a dipshit) which is probably true. However, you did break the rules so you deserve to be banned. I cannot say for certain, but this probably has a big factor on why you proposed this and gives me insight to why you are specifically attacking ban appeals claiming they are corrupt.)

↩  Akefu-Brewer

God I actually knew you were going to call me out on that but I thought it was actually so clear I wouldn't need to explain it.

Yes breaking the rules is bad.

No I do not believe you should be forced to do anything. If you want to grief go ahead, but you will get banned. If you want to troll go ahead, the admins should be there to punish accordingly. Is that a hard concept to follow?

Im validating the human concept of using reasoning to forumlate a conclusion yes. Im not validating forcing people to give reasoning to further this agenda that ban appeals are corrupt.

↩  videogamesm12

I never claimed they were perfect. I even acknowledge that everything is in my opinion (which should be honestly held pretty high considering my tenure on the server)

Ego aside, of course the system we have in place isn't perfect. The owner isnt perfect, neither are the admins, policies, or players. This is obvious.

His solution is forcing players to give reasoning.

I don't believe forcing players to do anything is good. This is my ideology.

You are still allowed to (and should) give reasoning behind every vote.

A logical person who knows how the server works would imply that the issue is with admins who arent qualified enough being promoted due to bias. This is obviously a problem. I could write pages of threads about this, but this isn't what OP is claiming.

OP is saying that players who filed successful ban appeals and got unbanned, are being unbanned because of bias. This isnt an actual problem. Well maybe it is, but its actually so insignificant that it doesnt matter.

Of course people giving reasoning is helpful. If you want your vote to have more "weight" then you should give good reasoning. I however, do not believe your vote should just be completely cast aside if you don't give reasoning. If you need that much "help" then maybe you are not really qualified to be in the position you were elected into. How hard is it to quantify if someone should receive super admin.. (its not hard.) if you are capable of speaking English and can follow simple rules you have a very high chance to get admin on TF. The executives should have a general grasp of how the server is working, how your admins behave (if you are the EAO).. etc. The peoples reasoning should be helpful, but not the ultimate decision maker.

↩  Akefu-Brewer

Idk man. The problem you say of people being unbanned after being filing an unban appeal and having it approved isn't actually a problem. Thats not corrupt. Thats how an unban appeal works.

You just don't have a grasp on the servers actual problems.

This suggestion could get implemented and the effect it would have on the server would be almost nothing. Whether or not that almost nothing effect is positive or negative would be impossible to quantify.

At the end of the day, nothing would change, because your solution isnt actually a solution and the problem doesnt actually exist.

↩  Akefu-Brewer

"and they would actually be brought back if we keep this current system."

And guess what.. they would be banned again.. how strange of a concept is that.
You just don't understand how the server works. You are also just wrong and its pointless to keep attempting to tell you how the server does actually work.

The "people" have never actually mattered. The ultimate decision is up to the Executives or Wild.

↩  Akefu-Brewer Do you think being biased or having favor is bad all the time?

If No, then you have no argument.

If Yes, then you are just wrong and have no argument.

↩  Akefu-Brewer \

"Solving bias is impossible, taking steps to prevent it is"

Im going to stop you right there. We have taken steps to prevent it. Its in the form of giving autonomy over admin applications to the EAO, Its in the form of being able to ban players, its in the form of being able to suspend admins.

You are trying to solve a problem that doesnt not actually exist on the server because you do not understand how the server works.

↩  Akefu-Brewer

People critiquing other people will always lead to drama. If you can't see this you are... biased. LOL.

You don't have an understatement of how the rules or server has worked. This post and others above it shows me this.

You are trying to solve bias. There is NO way to solve bias. If you disagree, you are biased. Being biased is not inherently bad, a claim that you probably don't understand either.

"The super admin rank was made by an old owner, thus is irrelevant."

What? This doesn't even make sense.

I've told you how to remove the most possible bias from public applications, while keeping our "democratic" roots. Let me make it very clear it was not the solution you described in your post.

Here's how to completely remove the most possible bias. Notice I didn't say remove all bias because thats literally impossible.

Have Wild have completely authority over everything, nobody else would make decisions but him.

Object. TF has an issue with trying to solve problems that do not actually exist.

1. This server has never promoted a "quality over quantity"

The original super admin rank was intended to be given to anyone who could operate a mouse. Mark would frequently give admin to those who DM'd him on twitter that the server was down. The role was literally designed for quantity over quality. When questioned about this, Mark would just say if the admin was not fit to have their role, they would just be demoted.

2. You will never, no matter how hard you try, get rid of bias. Its literally impossible.

We entrust our Executives and Owner to make the correct decision. The EAO has always held the right to accept/deny applications for whatever reason, whether or not the application is overwhelmingly positive or negative.

"Ask yourselves, when ya’ll unban players because of a high vouch count, do they really stay unbanned for long? No!"

I really do not even know what this means. Players being banned, then unbanned, then banned again isn't a problem?
Thats what the whole being an admin entails.. banning people. Every grief can be rolled back, every troll can be muted. Im just very confused on what your point is here. Even if we did give reasoning being every vote, they could just get banned for breaking rules again anyway.. This doesn't solve the problem that doesn't even exist.

To solve your problem (that doesn't exist) the solution is to just permaban everyone who breaks a rule. They will never get unbanned for "having a high vouch count."

To sum it up. Your problem (which doesn't actually exist) is not fixed by requiring reasoning.

A better attempt at trying to reach quality > quantity would be to not even allow vouches/objects at all.

In regards to admin applications, have the people commenting give their thoughts/critiques of a player. Thats it. They would not vouch/object. The EAO or whoever makes the final decision at the time would then read every reasoning and make the final call.

IMO this would lead to way more drama, and just end of wasting peoples time and brainpower.

IMO the current way we have it, while still awful, is the best. It allows for the most votes possible, which in my eyes is the best. Im really big on community engagement, the more people the merrier. Look at the current process for electing any politician in the united states, your vote doesnt get discarded just because a figure of authority thought your vote was biased. The system acknowledges thats how people are going to be, biased. Enough people vote for it to balance out, and if it was a bad choice.. there's systems in place to solve it. Our systems are the admins themselves being able to ban players, admin suspensions, etc.

Stop complicating a system that doesn't need to be complicated to fix a problem that doesnt actually exist because the solution is literally impossible because its not human nature and we are not robots.

zthehorsekid faked logs in an attempt to get me and Immurtle suspended, pretty weird.

Immurtle and I were doomed, then their group posted the “evidence” on the forums.

This situation was one of the many reasons I removed a lot of the old senior admins power

Object.

"its a joke" is not an excuse.

If you want to help the server you can still do that from the position of a regular member.

At the very least you're more obnoxious than 2016 miwo, and without any of the benefits.

↩  Shdwo Ok I believe you, you werent bypassing. Everything else in my reply still applies.

↩  Shdwo

Your reason you think you should be unbanned is that "TF closing down event 2021?? I feel it's only right that I get the opportunity to say goodbye to people on the discord :("

TF is no longer closing down. You have no reason anymore.

1 Vouch you recieved was specifically so you could say goodbye
1 Vouch you recieved was because "profile pic is a cat"
1 Vouch is from someone who is going to be indefinitely banned across the TF network

You have been bypassing (maybe), you have still been being disruptive. In my eyes, and hopefully whoever decides the conclusion of your appeal, your only legitimate (which really aren't legitimate because your reason is no longer valid) vouches total to 3 (Erin, Charge, NotPetya) to 9 objections.

Need any further elaboration?

should be insta denied

ill get on that chief.

Object

total freedom has always had rules, lol. follow the rules and you wont get banned. its up to admins to interpret and use their best judgement to enforce the rules. these are the people you wanted to have run the server.

it is and has always been "if you dont like it, leave"

you have no legitmate argument. suggest changes/further clarification to rules instead of just having a very basic complaint. you do not get anywhere close to actual change with your current argument against the current rules.