How we can all improve TF

Quote from Telesphoreo

I think someone else needs control of the TF infrastructure. This is being ran like a business that's conservative to make changes and the entire thing is so complicated. It all needs to be simplified. It was so easy when Seth owned the server and I was lead dev. I had file access and put the plugins in the update folder and it was applied next server restart. I just don't understand how we have so many problems when fundamentally running a Minecraft network isn't hard. From my experience, the longer you don't update things, the harder it gets to upgrade in the future. Working with video on the huge EssentialsX update was good. It was done fast, it was merged quickly, and it was on the server in a week or so. I don't even know how to say this in a nice way but I felt like a lot of my requests regarding the Scissors infrastructure were basically ignored. The agent was offline for almost the entire span of it being on SN infrastructure and we had to use Fleeks server. I asked multiple times (waiting weeks in between) for updates and ultimately I just put it back on my server instead. Stuff just doesn't get done infrastructure wise but I feel like it does plugin wise. Both need to happen and one side isn't happening. Give the infrastructure to me for crying out loud, I'd have the server on 1.19 tomorrow.

Scissors and tf are generally separate and right now I'm the only one other than yourself looking at the scissors stuff. And my life has been busy irl.

With plugins there has never been any actually strict requirements around them. Only that they are properly tested on the dev server before being promoted and Paldiu has the file access in both dev and prod to promote plugins. Tfm specifically the idea was to bundle up updates monthly so we had confidence an update was good (which was a problem under Seth and when I took over) and so we know what's changed.

There is an additional step now for malware scanning but plugin chances can move as quickly as Paldiu can sign those changes off.

I did want long term us to do more structured and planned development but that just never really worked even when we did it on simple more.

Quote from Telesphoreo

Quote from wild1145

Scissors and tf are generally separate and right now I'm the only one other than yourself looking at the scissors stuff. And my life has been busy irl.

With plugins there has never been any actually strict requirements around them. Only that they are properly tested on the dev server before being promoted and Paldiu has the file access in both dev and prod to promote plugins. Tfm specifically the idea was to bundle up updates monthly so we had confidence an update was good (which was a problem under Seth and when I took over) and so we know what's changed.

There is an additional step now for malware scanning but plugin chances can move as quickly as Paldiu can sign those changes off.

I did want long term us to do more structured and planned development but that just never really worked even when we did it on simple more.

But this is my point: You're busy. I asked over the span of nearly 3 months for it to get looked at, and was very understanding and gave you plenty of time. It simply never got done. There's nothing else to say, it just didn't get done. I get it, you're busy. But if that's the case, give root access to more people so they can accelerate development. I have gigabit internet and my ISP gives uncapped limits for how much I can download. I'd be willing to download the 1.17 world, convert it on my computer and assess how much bigger it is, and then upload it back to an updated 1.19.4 server. And you could a temporary world for a day or two while that happens. My point is you have people like me willing to do this, but there's simply no way for me to help in the way necessary for actually getting stuff done beyond updating plugins, which Video and I have been doing.

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As I said scissors is not the same as tf. Tf has other people with files system access that can pick this shit up, scissors is entirely separate currently and was done so intentionally. There's no issue with more people being given file system access but that wouldn't have helped that issue you raise.

Let me make this clear before we begin, I am not against the server being a network, but I am against how we're running it as a network currently. No offense to Ryan, but I believe we need to re-evaluate how we run currently.

Reconsider the concept of having TotalFreedom be a network in the first place for now

The idea would be to kill the Bungee concept entirely for now and just run the server as a standalone box again. This would hugely simplify our infrastructure and quite frankly would make running the server infinitely easier. It would take much less time for us to perform maintenance with this simpler infrastructure. We wouldn't need to worry about free-op or some other potentially hazardous plugin potentially causing network-wide chaos because there wouldn't be any network for the bullshit to spread to. I believe this might be one of the best solutions currently, and here's why.

Management's eyes are on the prize (being a network), but not how we manage to get there, and that's causing a lot of issues. We're needlessly over-complicating how we run things by an insane amount (e.g. stupidly restrictive development) which requires us to waste time playing hopscotch by jumping through all of the hoops and then acting surprised when the extremely limited development resources we have (namely, Paul, Allink, and I in our free time) can't deliver. Furthermore, Ryan is, in my opinion, trying to juggle way too many at things at once whilst having a schedule that is more tightly packed than a can of sardines, which prevents him from effectively doing his job as the owner of the network. Simplifying our infrastructure and how we run would help massively with this because it would take much less time to do what we need to do.

I wouldn't be as open to this idea of simplifying our infrastructure if it wasn't for the fact that in practice, we're not very successful as a network, and this is based on the state of the network as it stands right now, not the player count. We're running as a network, we only have a single active gamemode and that's only because it has been established for nearly 13 years now. We lack a solid, proper foundation (namely, a variety of fully implemented gamemodes instead of just two), which is something that is crucial for us to be a network. What we have right now just doesn't count. We've been at this state for practically 3 years, and I'm afraid things haven't changed. With how over-complicated things are currently and given the unsuccessful nature of the network concept, simplifying what we have makes sense.

TL;DR - I'm not saying we shouldn't be a network at all, but I am saying we should be mindful of the resources we have and to avoid being too ambitious. We should wait until we have a solid foundation to even be a network before we can call ourselves one. Management is being overly ambitious about how we run our shit and this is taking an incredibly negative toll on the state of the server and community. We should try to simplify how we run to account for our limited resources and our schedules.

Quote from zekurt

management was almost completely transparent

Management during the Seth era was only transparent in matters that helped their image. Members of the community that the elites didn't like were either relentlessly bullied into leaving, quietly indefinitely banned, or had votes related to them rigged against them on purpose. It was rotten at its core. The "transparency" you're referring to was an illusion. Had it not been for the efforts of Luke, Zaid, and I, none of the information that came out about the administration at the time would have ever seen the light of day.

You could call the Seth administration a lot of things, but it was not truly transparent. It was a one-sided mirror; you could see things through one way, but not another. On one side you could see how the server was being run during its day-to-day operations, but you could never see the true reality of what those involved were actually doing to their victims.

Quote from Allink

I can't find a better way to describe TF as a server that shows us why the common adage "don't rest on your laurels" is so telling of reality. Everyone seems to more than eager to bring up our past successes but do not think to mention what we can do to improve the server in the future. Let us all remember that the present is merely a culmination of all of our actions in the past. Repeating our past actions and/or staying the same would absolutely not fix the core issues that this server currently suffers from. The past should be used as a learning opportunity so we don't repeat our historical mistakes.

Let me not be mistook here, as I am not trying to dirty the memories older players have of this server. But let's not pretend that the past wasn't full of rampant corruption, insiding and general incompetence. We need to focus on the present & the future, not the past. We can't just stay the same forever, and expect the players to stay. That's not how players are retained. You need to constantly iterate upon the core idea that the server offers.

The power of relatively inactive management needs to be split up and given to others. There's no poison worse for any sort of organised entity than that of unreachable/uncontactable management. There could be some sort of executive activity requirement, or some policy with similar effect. No hate to the current management, but they all clearly have better things to do with their time. There are multiple people (including me) who have enough free time to constitute at least a few hours being spent exclusively on TF everyday.

As a developer, I can't begin to put into worse how fustrating the state of TF is. Our development team, while currently small, has enough manpower to constitute maintaining the server and the custom plugins. However, that's made incredibly difficult because of the way changes are officiated. In the next paragraph I will lay out the procedure for getting a change to TFM pushed to the server:

1. You make a branch off the development branch in the TFM repo.
2. You commit your changes to that branch.
3. You open a pull request for the changes to be merged into development.
4. You wait for another developer to review your changes.
5. If necessary, you make the requested changes and then go back to step 4.
6. If your changes are approved, you or another developer merge it into the development branch.
7. The changes on the development branch are tested until they are deemed ready for the main branch.
8. Successful testing on the development branch means that it will be merged into main.
9. A release will be created from the main branch.
10. That release will be put on the server.

Now, this is quite standard procedure for any large open source project with thousands of contributors, however considering TotalFreedomMod is a project that is worked on by volunteers and in their own free time, step 4 and beyond take really hard to complete.

What I suggest is that all future endeavours relating to the development of TF are stripped of the more excessively bureaucratic aspects (i.e. having one main branch and removing the release system). Pull requests and separate branches are a good thing, but the way everything is setup and operating at the minute is just downright silly.

I truly want TF to succeed. However, the way it is at the moment, I see no other eventuality other than its slow and painful death. Major change needs to be enacted, and fast.

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It's about balance, I received pressure when I took over to increase the quality of the development as there were a lot of complaints that untested crap was getting pushed to the server, leading to basic exploits and ultimately pushing people away.

TFM releases can be pretty quick, and the main issue was the lack of people properly reviewing code changes, the process got more complex / difficult because people were circumventing it / trying to push untested crap onto the live server.

videogamesm12 is within his power to change this, but the reality is we need actually tested and assured code running, not things that just don't throw errors in the IDE.

Quote from videogamesm12

Let me make this clear before we begin, I am not against the server being a network, but I am against how we're running it as a network currently. No offense to Ryan, but I believe we need to re-evaluate how we run currently.

Reconsider the concept of having TotalFreedom be a network in the first place for now

The idea would be to kill the Bungee concept entirely for now and just run the server as a standalone box again. This would hugely simplify our infrastructure and quite frankly would make running the server infinitely easier. It would take much less time for us to perform maintenance with this simpler infrastructure. We wouldn't need to worry about free-op or some other potentially hazardous plugin potentially causing network-wide chaos because there wouldn't be any network for the bullshit to spread to. I believe this might be one of the best solutions currently, and here's why.

Management's eyes are on the prize (being a network), but not how we manage to get there, and that's causing a lot of issues. We're needlessly over-complicating how we run things by an insane amount (e.g. stupidly restrictive development) which requires us to waste time playing hopscotch by jumping through all of the hoops and then acting surprised when the extremely limited development resources we have (namely, Paul, Allink, and I in our free time) can't deliver. Furthermore, Ryan is, in my opinion, trying to juggle way too many at things at once whilst having a schedule that is more tightly packed than a can of sardines, which prevents him from effectively doing his job as the owner of the network. Simplifying our infrastructure and how we run would help massively with this because it would take much less time to do what we need to do.

I wouldn't be as open to this idea of simplifying our infrastructure if it wasn't for the fact that in practice, we're not very successful as a network, and this is based on the state of the network as it stands right now, not the player count. We're running as a network, we only have a single active gamemode and that's only because it has been established for nearly 13 years now. We lack a solid, proper foundation (namely, a variety of fully implemented gamemodes instead of just two), which is something that is crucial for us to be a network. What we have right now just doesn't count. We've been at this state for practically 3 years, and I'm afraid things haven't changed. With how over-complicated things are currently and given the unsuccessful nature of the network concept, simplifying what we have makes sense.

TL;DR - I'm not saying we shouldn't be a network at all, but I am saying we should be mindful of the resources we have and to avoid being too ambitious. We should wait until we have a solid foundation to even be a network before we can call ourselves one. Management is being overly ambitious about how we run our shit and this is taking an incredibly negative toll on the state of the server and community. We should try to simplify how we run to account for our limited resources and our schedules.

I think it's important to untangle the network compared to the freedom game mode. The development process is entirely a limitation within the freedom game mode, and as long as people aren't fucking with user permissions adding new plugins shouldn't in reality actually cause an issue (and if we bother to test them on a test server with a trusted audience, we should find a lot of these more obvious problems).

I'm not against removing the network, but it's important to note it doesn't really simplify anything beyond removing the hub and skyblock (And preventing us splitting the worlds out into their own servers which was partially planned), the same restrictions for file access, panel access and such would exist, and the Freedom server would simply have the same (if not more) resource constraints to free up capacity for other projects I'd look to start.

This would be what we call at work, a one way door decision, going back to being a network would not be possible, and if we're limiting the growth of the server (and network currently) then so be it, but it'll ultimately cause us to be more constrained overall and our growth will be significantly limited.

Quote from Allink

and we would gain some development cost back as we wouldn't have to implement the cross-server synchronization stuff (bans, etc.) that seems to currently be planned.

There would be no development effort required. The dev team only work on freedom 01 on purpose.

We had a freedom 02 but it ended up being a mess and people hated it even as a fallback.