So. Around a week or so ago, I was false banned for "Spamming fireworks" Which was false to begin with as I launched two non lag fireworks over a build for fun. Pharma smited me which was reasonable. I went far from anyone's build and continued to experiment with the firework trails Pharma was actively observing me and said something along the lines of "Still experimenting with the fireworks?" And they banned me for one hour. I combated this ban on the forums with several vouches from users and a in game demonstration. The second incident of an unjustified ban happened today. Someone supposedly "stole" an item and destroyed it. Other users have looked at the rules and said no such rule has ever existed. I did so too, looking at /rules in game. Another user stated that we wouldn't have the item archives we have now if "stealing" items was a rule. I went to a user's plot which should remain anonymous and they had an entire stash of stolen items. Hundreds if not thousands of dupes. I tried calling the admins out on their trigger-happy banhammer and Ashaz muted me. Once I was unmuted. I tried being as respectful as possible in calling them out for a mute once more. They responded by giving me a one-hour ban. I had multiple vouches from other players saying that stealing was never against the rules. Admins claimed that it has been a rule for over a year. I have never seen anyone get banned for this "rule" in the past. Pharma, Ash, You can do better.
Admin rulebreaking -PharmaPhirate and Ashaz
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I have forwarded your concerns to the EAO. They should be in contact with you soon.
Edit: Your ban is for 24 hours, by the way.
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I won't comment on this situation yet as I haven't a full picture of what happened but I'll read through the chat logs and general logs of what happened tomorrow to try and paint an objective picture of what happened.
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I won't comment on this situation yet as I haven't a full picture of what happened but I'll read through the chat logs and general logs of what happened tomorrow to try and paint an objective picture of what happened.
Thank you.
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I'm going to have to agree with this. To add some validity to these claims and provide some more examples of this behavior, I saw this demonstrated from both the admins mentioned in the original post. The first thing happened when I returned around 5 days ago. I pasted in a build near spawn, and then a few hours later I was banned by ThePharmaPirate for it because it was supposedly "griefing." I knew it was nonsense, but didn't appeal because I decided it just wasn't worth the effort. The next day, I rejoined to assess the area where the build was to see if I had accidentally pasted it over anything. There were builds in the area, but they all had been put there after I had pasted mine. When I brought up the erroneous ban to him the next day and criticized him for it, his response was to mute me in-game. Then, Ashaz decided to step in by claiming that I was "stirring the pot," which I wasn't really doing. I then criticized him for making that claim, and his response was to ban me for an hour off the server.
Yeah, I will say negative things about people unprompted, and yeah, I have criticized Ashaz before. But both of these staff members have proven through their actions that they need to learn to respond properly to criticism. There's a difference between people who are just pestering others and causing drama and people who actually have criticism that is being communicated with good reason. Luke actually also erroneously banned me yesterday because he thought I was bypassing another ban, but I didn't mention him above because he responded correctly by apologizing and owning his mistake. Also, wasn't there some sort of rule/policy written about admin criticism specifically in the past that protected ops who criticized admins? I'm pretty sure that policy is still in effect. Nonetheless, I think something should be done about admins who punish ops because they don't like what they have to say.
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Same issue here, I was standing AFK at someones house, then I hear a lightning, I check my PC and see that I was banned for stealing someones item and destroying it. I was banned by Pharma, but since it was only 1hour, I thought I didn't need to appeal (cuz, its only one hour?).
I have nothing to say about Ashaz though. I think he's a great guy. -
the true irony lies with the fact that you were worried about this ban being on your record and whatnot, but nobody would’ve even known or cared if not for this retarded thread being created
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- Official Post
Just for some clarity here.
Someone supposedly "stole" an item and destroyed it. Other users have looked at the rules and said no such rule has ever existed. I did so too, looking at /rules in game
Rules 1,3 and 4 all apply in this case.
I tried calling the admins out on their trigger-happy banhammer and Ashaz muted me. Once I was unmuted. I tried being as respectful as possible in calling them out for a mute once more. They responded by giving me a one-hour ban.
Which given it was against the rules and the admins online are empowered to make that judgement as well as my clarity above, you did in error.
I had multiple vouches from other players saying that stealing was never against the rules. Admins claimed that it has been a rule for over a year. I have never seen anyone get banned for this "rule" in the past.
As clarified above, rules are not agreed by committee they're decided by me and enforced by the admins online, the most senior of which has ultimate authority on any and all cases.
So far I'd agree with the actions the staff took and would be happy to say you were the one at fault.
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Just for some clarity here.
Someone supposedly "stole" an item and destroyed it. Other users have looked at the rules and said no such rule has ever existed. I did so too, looking at /rules in game
Rules 1,3 and 4 all apply in this case.
I tried calling the admins out on their trigger-happy banhammer and Ashaz muted me. Once I was unmuted. I tried being as respectful as possible in calling them out for a mute once more. They responded by giving me a one-hour ban.
Which given it was against the rules and the admins online are empowered to make that judgement as well as my clarity above, you did in error.
I had multiple vouches from other players saying that stealing was never against the rules. Admins claimed that it has been a rule for over a year. I have never seen anyone get banned for this "rule" in the past.
As clarified above, rules are not agreed by committee they're decided by me and enforced by the admins online, the most senior of which has ultimate authority on any and all cases.
So far I'd agree with the actions the staff took and would be happy to say you were the one at fault.
The question I have is, how is stealing/copying an item in a block game an act of disrespect, or any way to advertise, promote hate or otherwise try to harm the overall community? It's a virtual item on a free OP server where people do have access to your inventory, and the theft/copying of said virtual item hurts nobody. Most of the past items that we have on TF are still around because people "stole" those items, and you can't deny it considering most of the items that are around are made by players that are no longer active here in the community.
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Just for some clarity here.
Rules 1,3 and 4 all apply in this case.
Which given it was against the rules and the admins online are empowered to make that judgement as well as my clarity above, you did in error.
As clarified above, rules are not agreed by committee they're decided by me and enforced by the admins online, the most senior of which has ultimate authority on any and all cases.
So far I'd agree with the actions the staff took and would be happy to say you were the one at fault.
The question I have is, how is stealing/copying an item in a block game an act of disrespect, or any way to advertise, promote hate or otherwise try to harm the overall community? It's a virtual item on a free OP server where people do have access to your inventory, and the theft/copying of said virtual item hurts nobody. Most of the past items that we have on TF are still around because people "stole" those items, and you can't deny it considering most of the items that are around are made by players that are no longer active here in the community.
I like how you said stealing/copying instead of just stealing, because you know the nuances that “stealing” on its own has.
If a player does not want their items to be taken and copied, another player doing so is a sign of disrespect.
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- Official Post
Just for some clarity here.
Rules 1,3 and 4 all apply in this case.
Which given it was against the rules and the admins online are empowered to make that judgement as well as my clarity above, you did in error.
As clarified above, rules are not agreed by committee they're decided by me and enforced by the admins online, the most senior of which has ultimate authority on any and all cases.
So far I'd agree with the actions the staff took and would be happy to say you were the one at fault.
The question I have is, how is stealing/copying an item in a block game an act of disrespect, or any way to advertise, promote hate or otherwise try to harm the overall community? It's a virtual item on a free OP server where people do have access to your inventory, and the theft/copying of said virtual item hurts nobody. Most of the past items that we have on TF are still around because people "stole" those items, and you can't deny it considering most of the items that are around are made by players that are no longer active here in the community.
I would suggest re reading my reply and what I replied to. The issues highlighted were invasions of a players privacy, making the server a hostile place for another player and ultimately destroying something they created. None of which have ever been acceptable.
I know item copying happens and there's little technically we can do to prevent it but if a player reports these things and an admin confirms it's true they are within their rights to sanction as they see fit.
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Stealing their shit can also fall under the "being a nuisance to other players" or similar trolling rules under the Admin Guidance For Sanctions post so being punished for it sounds pretty fair. Either way it was trolling and that is against the rules so being punished for it seems incredibly fair.
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Nothing will ever be done if this is how OPs handle things.
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After reading the responses above, I object to this report for the reasons that Ryan and Alco have stated, and I agree with the administrative actions taken by Pharma and Ashaz.
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I'm not going to extend on this matter much further, but I genuinely think it's a small group of individuals who actually have an issue with this sanction and won't bother following the right protocol to get the right people involved to deal with it. As well as this, this "pathetic" situation (as described by you) is genuinely a case of you as an OP struggling to deal with the current rules we have. In my eyes, you do not reserve the right to criticise an admin as an ex-admin, you only reserve that right as an OP.
Also, in no way did you "call out" the admin team "respectfully":
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/874713176082636882/1058055019171164170/image.png
You classify the actions of Pharma and I as trigger-happy; I classify it as fair. I don't think you've updated yourself on the current rules at all, and frankly since you claim to have been an admin before, I'm surprised you actually got onto the team with the lack of composure you portrayed yesterday in chat.
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I have the entire gameplay file recorded and I will render it now and upload it for everyone to see. My bans were valid and I attempted to warn players before issuing sanctions. The rules are not exactly set-in-stone and are not to be taken verbatum.
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ip leak moment!!! 30:42
oh btw it seems like YOU destroyed the book itself, not me since I know about pick block!! -
ip leak moment!!! 30:42
oh btw it seems like YOU destroyed the book itself, not me since I know about pick block!!We made sure to clear the video by Wild before posting to public. It is an unrelated IP address.
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As well as this, this "pathetic" situation (as described by you) is genuinely a case of you as an OP struggling to deal with the current rules we have.
The part about "stealing" items is actually a form of griefing (modifying builds) and is bannable. However, OP was right about the firework stuff being a false ban. There's no reason for an admin to sanction an op for literally just placing some fireworks. Coincidentally, any evidence of that was excluded from the provided video from ThePharmaPirate.
Not to speak for OP, but I believe the issue they (and I) have with you is that your response to criticism of not just yourself, but other staff is to label it as "drama" and ban people for it. People aren't exactly going to be happy about an admin screwing up a punishment, and you can't just assume that you or another staff member is going to assess the situation correctly every single time. Criticism of mistakes is not "drama," even if it involves some frustration on one or both ends of the discussion. If I were you, and if I had chosen to step into the situation(s) as you did, I would have made sure to double check what actually happened using concrete evidence instead of hearsay, and responded by either telling Pharma to correct his mistake by owning up to it, or if I still agreed with his decision, allow the operator to continue their criticism.
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