Clarity around long term bans

As many will be aware, we recently approved a change to one of the longest standing systems on TF which was to move away from indefinite / permanent bans, and instead set a longer term ban duration. Given the history around this it's been slightly more complicated than some of our usual changes to actually make, and for the time being there's a lot of manual steps involved, and some details we need to work through. I'm going to try to cover off everything that is changing with the indef ban process through this thread.

Bans that have been issued with a "Minimum Appeal Duration"

In all cases where a ban was issued with a minimum time until the player could appeal, that duration will now be treated as the ban duration itself. The user will be un-banned once that minimum duration has expired.

Existing Indef Bans that had no minimum duration

In all of these cases (Unless covered under a different category on this thread) the ban duration will be set at 6 months from Today. While this isn't perfect, it seems like a reasonably fair way to handle it. Likewise these bans (Again unless also covered under a different heading on the thread) will still be able to appeal their bans prior to the expiry date.

Appeals

Appealing where the individual banned believes the ban was not justified, the player was innocent or evidence presented was mis-represented or forged

As per our existing process, we will always be happy to hear appeals where an individual has solid reason to believe the ban or other sanction they have been issued was inappropriate. If you genuinely believe the ban was made in error, bad faith or that you genuinely should not be banned then please proceed to make an appeal as you normally would.

I did the thing you accused me of but I don't think I should be banned as long as I have been.

For the most part the ban duration is set in stone, if you don't like the duration then for the most part, don't get banned...

The duration of the ban will be discussed by admins going forward as part of the ban request process, and it is expected that any justifications for a shorter / longer ban will be discussed and subject to a rigorous discussion by the staff team there. If an admin believes that the ban duration is inappropriate and doesn't align with existing precedence set they should raise this with the Executive Ban Manager and escalate as appropriate.

If the player genuinely believes their ban duration is not fair or justified, they should seek the support of a member of the server staff who can follow the above process to escalate and where appropriate revise the ban duration.

Unappealable Bans

These bans will now transform into genuine "Permanent" bans and will be subject to the same rules here where there are no appeals granted. Ultimately nothing changes in this case.

IP Only Bans

We have a number of IP Addresses that have been banned due to being associated with botnets / spambots. These will also remain permanently banned and are not time limited. Players that are affected by these bans will be asked to raise an appeal on the forums where we can review and wherever possible remove the IP Ban.

Self Requests

Self requested bans will continue to operate how they always have for the time being where there is no minimum duration and the player can be released on request.

Mandated Holidays / Forced Absence

In some cases we have had to remove individuals from the community for their own mental health. In these cases the ban manager will set a minimum duration after which they will review the ban and either release the ban or extend it for a future review. There is no guaranteed removals from a mandated holiday unless the ban manager / owner feels it is in the community and players best interest to return at that time.

I'm sure I'll have missed things on this list, if so please let me know and I'll edit this thread accordingly.

Quote from Luke

Quote from wild1145

TF Staff may challenge a ban duration if they believe it is unfair or does not align with president already set on the server.

oh that damm biden not aligning with me

Yes Yes Yes. Laugh at the Dyslexic person that picked the wrong word that is pronounced basically the fucking same.

Quote from videogamesm12

Uhhh, this seems like a major step backwards...

Players never had a say how long they were banned before. Why should someone who has broken the rules decide their own punishment?

Quote from videogamesm12

Can this be done publicly?

That's down to the Ban Manager but I'd suggest it should form part of the admin discussion on the ban request itself.

EDIT: in the event the challenge is made public it's worth noting due to the current way bans are managed the individual banned as well as any non staff members won't have their views considered.

Quote from characterslimits

Agreeing with videogamesmash here. The revoking of players' ability to challenge the length of the ban is so against the name of the server.

First, as I've said above players never have decided their own punishments. The admin team have. Secondly the name of this server has nothing to do with its policies and it's a totally bullshit argument.

Quote from characterslimits

Not to be rude to any future, current, or past staff members, but I doubt that any of them are actually that proactive to check and call out every single ban duration. This is why players shall retain the ability to challenge their ban duration because, once again, there isn't going to be someone checking everyone's bans

Yet we do... That's the entire role of the ban manager. If you don't want to get banned don't break the rules.

Quote from characterslimits

I do agree that the punishments should be up to the administrators, but challenging your own ban =/= deciding your punishment. If someone believes that they have been banned for too long, then they should be able to and the community shall decide if that's the case.

As per the original post, if the ban was incorrectly issued then the player can 100% appeal it. What they can't do is say "I think that's too long you're being mean."

Quote from characterslimits

Alco is just another human being like you, me, and everyone here. No-one has the time to go through the, thousands upon thousands of bans from 2010 to now.

Nor are they expected to... Please re read the original post because I've at no point suggested this is required.

Quote from videogamesm12

Also, why is this a matter of guilty until proven innocent, and not the other way around?

Again not sure where you're getting this from? The decision making on if to approve / reject a ban request doesn't change.

Quote from videogamesm12

Picture the scene: an administrator with a grudge against a particular operator maliciously abuses their power to unfairly ban said operator on multiple occasions when no one is around. When asked by other administrators about why a particular operator was banned, they make up a story about something like threatening to DDoS the server and fabricate evidence to convince his fellow staff members. When the operator attempts to appeal said bans, naturally the admin will comment on the appeal by providing the fake story and evidence. Not knowing the reality of the situation, the community sides with the admin and their fake story because they trust the admin's word more than the operator's. Despite the operator's pleas, the appeal is denied as a result.

The previous ban appeal system had a variety of different use cases, but arguably the most important one it had is how it held staff members accountable. Instead of adjusting the old system to work with temporary bans, we have taken a leap backwards when it comes to operators' rights by stripping away an operator's ability to defend themselves and making it much harder for operators to hold staff members accountable for their actions.

Again you need to re read the original post because none of this is true. In this case the op can appeal the ban (even if it's only part of the ban) on the grounds they had their ibr approved and they did nothing wrong. What they can't do is say "Yeah I did all that but you should change the ban duration because I feel like it"

Quote from RedEastWood

you phrased the original post quite poorly, which has led to this confusion.

I thought I'd made it fairly clear, evidently not...

I've now re-written the appeals section to try to make it clearer and re-ordered the points to hopefully make it more clear.