Roe v. Wade Officially Overturned by SCOTUS

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↩ @'luca nyahoooo' those of you saying there shouldn’t even be an exception for rape cases, you are truly just acting gross. Literally misogynistic.

typically insulting people because of their opinion shows that you dont know how to actually argue against them. instead of slandering anyone who disagrees with you as hating women, read their arguments. if you took the time to understand the prolife position, you would know that prolifers dont like abortion because it kills the baby. they believe that the fetus is a human being with the value of a human. now, why should a baby be any less human because of how it was born? regardless of circumstances, its a human being, so why should abortion be allowed there?

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↩ @'luca nyahoooo' This is a war against women, not about saving fucking children.

then why are almost 40% of women against abortion 💀 (source because red will yell at me https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-…ortion-n1278210). its not a war against women, pro choice advocates just use that as a straw man to say that prolifers just want to turn women into baby making slaves, and not have to argue prolifers real opinions. a real war against women would be like the taliban in afghanistan, where women could actually be killed for wearing shorts. but you think a “war against women” looks like an opinion that we shouldnt kill babies, which is supported by almost 40% of women.

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↩  Miwojedk Do you support late-stage (<4 weeks before birth) in cases of rape and medical emergencies (say an issue that has a 30% chance of killing the mother, but saving the baby in all cases).

i agree with your previous point - it isn't just consciousness that factors into somebody being human - but i believe it's most likely one of the biggest reasons people argue against abortion (or atleast what I have seen from pro-life protestors)

late-stage abortions are another issue as the baby usually is awake around 18 weeks and can feel pain at 22 so if you were to abort a baby at around 30-40 weeks you're not killing a cluster of cells but an actual being at that point, atleast in my opinion.

for rape, the option of abortion should be present for the mother for their health up until 24 months (as it was before).
i personally believe abortion shouldn't be carried out (in the vast majority of these cases) as the procedures following late-stage abortion are gruesome for the foetus (poisoning, crushing, dismemberment) and raise short-term health effects for the woman so overall causes more suffering than early on abortion. this was already in place both by laws but also by the financial impact and scarcity of third trimester abortions. infanticide is illegal in many states (maybe all, im not american) and at this point, the line dividing the two is blurry.

under medical emergencies, in most situations, i believe abortion is still right as an option as preventing the mother from saving herself from maternal death is (at least for me) fundementally wrong if you are also fighting to save the baby by labelling it "murder" by not doing so. the mother can choose to save the child if she wanted to but with the way medical technologies has progressed hopefully this choice will not have to be made in the future.
many of the things argued by pro-life that are emotional fallacies could also apply to the mother herself yet we have to look back at the point of the lesser evil and which would suffer the most from not getting an abortion. even if the mother was to live, the baby may grow up in an unloving household as they were not aborted (however this is contingent on the parents)

although, from studies that i have read, many of the late-term abortions are not due to medical complications but moreover late pregnancy diagnosis so the ethics on this depends on a case-by-case basis

abortion should still be protected as an option in every case before 24 months since it's a woman's right to choose however i believe it should be limited past that time frame under certain circumstances like it was before purely because of the many issues facing the mother and the fact that the child is actually alive, and not a metaphorical "it could be alive" alive.

i would love to hear your (and others) opinion on this though

↩  enchy Nah I read them, I’m just disgusted that you are spreading rape apologist rhetoric. You don’t have a fucking uterus, you are not a woman.

Did you know that a lot of women are on life saving medications that they couldn’t take if they didn’t terminate a pregnancy ? A friend of mine recently had an abortion because she is on bipolar medication which she couldn’t take if she kept the baby, she would have gone catastrophic if she discontinued that.

Women in America on Methotrexate (chemotherapy drug) have reported being denied their continued script for their medication because it could be used for a termination. I’ve been on that medication for years, I couldn’t walk without it.

Women who are against abortion are entitled to their opinion, but they’re somewhat privileged for not fighting alongside their sisters with disability, their sisters medically compromised, rape victims, LITERAL CHILDREN who have been impregnated.

Why should 12 year olds have to give birth. Because they were assaulted ? So they must give birth to a child of trauma at an age that their bodies aren’t even physically capable of giving birth to a child without compromising them, that could and will be fatal in so many instances.

Or maybe they consented ? But kids shouldn’t be having intercourse? Why’s that? BECAUSE THEIR BRAINS AREN’T FULLY DEVELOPED. Oh and funny that fully developed brains make mistakes, why should they have to live with that mistake for life.

Abortion is sad. It’s a traumatic process for everyone. But it is essential healthcare.

in the end, it’s just a big cluster fuck. This isn’t about morals. This is about power. This is deluded men AND a percentage of women brainwashed and oppressed by them.

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↩ @'luca nyahoooo' This isn’t about morals. This is about power.

In what manner is this about power? How do "men and a percentage of women" gain any benefit in not allowing abortion?

And it certainly is about morals. The entire discussion on this thread is simple proof of that. Should you kill a human yes/no. Is a fetus a human and if so, when?

Note: "40% of women are against abortion"-number is a tad bit misleading. The article says that number (38%) of women believe that abortion "should be illegal in all or most cases".

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↩  square i would love to hear your (and others) opinion on this though

I don't disagree with much that you said except that I think 24 weeks is a tad too late for me. I think that a buffer period before the 18-weeks mark (where pain might develop) should be placed out of a precautionary principle. Say 12 weeks or so. And extreme cases (e.g. rape and medical emergencies) should be an exemption - in these cases however, I don't know when I would be comfortable letting abortions happen (if at all).
Say the fetus is fully developed and the mother is within a few weeks of giving birth - I can't give a solid answer as to why I also believe that abortion should be allowed under those circumstances. Out of moral dumbfounding I legit can't decide why

But I can certainly sympathize with somebody who's pro-life because they think that abortion amounts to infanticide. If you were of the same opinion, then you would certainly be hinged if you weren't against abortion.

idk abortion crazy yo

probably unrelated but the supreme court has agreed to hear Harper v. Moore (which seeks to reinstate gerrymandered congressional maps)

↩  SuperRyn that procedure looks pretty awesome tbh.

↩  batchest 😨

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↩ @'luca nyahoooo' I’m just disgusted that you are spreading rape apologist rhetoric.

bullshit. you and i both know this is bullshit. where have i said anything that makes excuses for rape.

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↩ @'luca nyahoooo' Did you know that a lot of women are on life saving medications that they couldn’t take if they didn’t terminate a pregnancy ?

i have literally said id be fine with abortions ONLY in the case of preserving the life of the mother. just goes to show how much you actually read the opposing arguments before calling anyone you disagree with “rape apologists.” anyways, in that situation someone dies either way so i dont see how saying no abortion does anything there

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↩ @'luca nyahoooo' why should they have to live with that mistake for life.

because actions have consequences. you make a mistake, you own up to it deal with it. every choice has its effects. refusing to deal with your own mistakes is asking to live in a fantasy where nothing ever goes wrong, which is childish, and never going to happen.

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↩ @'luca nyahoooo' It’s a traumatic process for everyone.

its a hell of a lot more traumatic for the baby whos getting killed

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↩ @'luca nyahoooo' This is about power. This is deluded men AND a percentage of women brainwashed and oppressed by them.

if its about power then i would support banning abortion even in cases where it preserves the life of the mother. but i dont. which goes to show i am proLIFE and no pro controlling women. and somehow anyone who disagrees with you is either deluded or brainwashed. wake the fuck up. people disagree with you. they might be right. not everyone who disagrees with you has some mental issue. not everyone who disagrees with you is a “rape apologist”,”deluded”,”brainwashed”, or trying to control women. i already know youre not gonna listen to anything i say, so im just gonna make a prediction that you will continue to call me a rape apologist, say that anyone who opposes abortion just wants to control women, and that somehow 38% of women are brainwashed.

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↩  enchy refusing to deal with your own mistakes

how do they deal with a mistake like that? enlighten me.

↩  darwin choosing to raise the child or let the child be adopted instead of just killing them

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↩  enchy choosing to raise the child or let the child be adopted

and give birth to a child they don't even want?

giving birth isn’t a great experience (unless, of course, the person pregnant is really excited about the baby, which in this scenario is unlikely (the pregnancy is referred to as a “mistake”, after all)) and it’s worsened by the fact that the person that’s pregnant in this situation is a literal 12 year old

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↩  enchy no pro controlling women

by forcing women to give birth, you are, in a way, "controlling" women.
(click here for definitions of the word "control")

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↩  darwin giving birth isn’t a great experience

its a lot worse experience for the baby getting killed

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↩  darwin by forcing women to give birth, you are, in a way, “controlling” women.

thats like saying the government is controlling you by banning you from stealing from other people. technically yes, but that doesnt necessarily mean its a bad thing. some forms of control are always necessary, or else we’d just live in anarchy with no governing laws

and i wouldnt call it “forcing women to give birth” when they’re pregnant from their own free choice.

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↩  enchy and i wouldnt call it “forcing women to give birth” when they’re pregnant from their own free choice.

except not all of them are????????

this is absolutely what could be considered forcing in this case.

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/202…ion/7788415001/

(remember, this is coming from the "but think of the children!!!!!!" kind of people, but they clearly don't actually care about the children when a literal child is also involved with and affected by this.)

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↩  enchy thats like saying the government is controlling you by banning you from stealing from other people. technically yes, but that doesnt necessarily mean its a bad thing. some forms of control are always necessary, or else we’d just live in anarchy with no governing laws

The difference about stealing is that we're talking about some item vs controlling an actual body

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↩  enchy and i wouldnt call it “forcing women to give birth” when they’re pregnant from their own free choice.

Getting raped is not their "free choice" (or their fault)

You know, I often wonder why I chose to stay around here in this dumpsterfire we call TotalFreedom but then I realize that I live in a way worse dumpsterfire and in comparison TF is pretty tame

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↩  darwin by forcing women to give birth, you are, in a way, “controlling” women.

forced pregnancy is also against the geneva convention fyi

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↩  enchy its a lot worse experience for the baby getting killed

i’m almost certainly gonna get flamed for saying this but i’m going to say it anyways (i was kinda surprised when i didnt actually get flamed):

the baby does not have a concept of “death” yet, and thus cannot experience it

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↩  enchy some forms of control are always necessary

is banning abortion necessary?

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↩  enchy when they’re pregnant from their own free choice

except in some cases, they don’t want to be pregnant.
or maybe they suddenly turned around and decided "hey I don't want a baby"

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↩  fleshly against the geneva convention

isnt the geneva convention only for armed conflicts?

lets view it as a car ride.

many people drive cars as a necessity and accidents aren't all too common, they still happen of course but they don't intentionally happen most of time.

but a very small group of people hate their life and purposely get into accidents so they can die.

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↩  enchy they’re pregnant from their own free choice

When people have sex it's because they love each other and want to feel really good with each other, they don't want 9 months of pain followed by 18+ years of financial and emotional dependencies to deal with. Especially with the current inflation rate and housing crisis.

If they want to have a child, they choose to have a child and therefore don't want an abortion so there's no issue. Sure, some people might not intend to have a child but still make the decision to keep and raise a baby. Again, they don't want an abortion so there's no issue.

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↩  enchy let the child be adopted instead of just killing them

There's over 400,000 children in the US foster care system, many of which will languish there for the majority of their childhood.. a number from when people could get abortions. There are already an overload of children there.. where the hell are they all gonna go? Growing up in a foster home is devastating for development.

You're also still forcing a woman through a 9 month pregnancy which isn't very comfortable to say the least and would require time off work.. again.. in this economy?

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↩  erin When people have sex it’s because they love each other and want to feel really good with each other, they don’t want 9 months of pain followed by 18+ years of financial and emotional dependencies to deal with. Especially with the current inflation rate and housing crisis.

just because you dont want consequences to happen doesnt mean that they just wont happen. sex will always carry the risk of becoming pregnant no matter what you do. its like saying i want to get drunk to feel good, but i dont want the hangover. be ready for the risks that you take. and adoption is always an option for parents who cant take care of a child

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↩  erin There’s over 400,000 children in the US foster care system, many of which will languish there for the majority of their childhood.. a number from when people could get abortions. There are already an overload of children there.. where the hell are they all gonna go? Growing up in a foster home is devastating for development.

id say ripping a baby to pieces and throwing it into the trash is slightly worse for development

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↩  erin You’re also still forcing a woman through a 9 month pregnancy which isn’t very comfortable to say the least

i mean you got two options: 9 months of pain, and then youre done and can give the baby up for adoption, or no pain and the baby dies. i think a human life is worth more than 9 months of being uncomfortable