↩ Kronnenberg The point here was of privacy, not of “killing a baby”. You wouldn’t want someone else (especially of the opposite sex) impeding on your privacy and determining whether or not you can have children.
getting a vasectomy only impacts the body of the man, who is the only one making the choice. getting an abortion kills the baby who has no say in the decision. again, not a great comparison. banning abortion does not determine whether or not you can have children, it determines whether or not you are allowed to kill children because you dont want a baby, after the baby, which is an independent, unique, human being, was conceived from your own free choice (abortions because of rape account for about 0.5% of abortions so im ignoring them for now).
↩ Kronnenberg Babies in the first trimester hardly have life.
when do they start having life? if your definition is second or third trimester, what about a day before then? does the baby suddenly come to life in 24 hours out of nowhere? the only consistent definition for when life begins is at conception, when a genetically unique, living, and growing zygote is formed. if the baby isnt alive in the first weeks of pregnancy, then how is it growing? and what do you mean by "hardly have life." what counts as life and what doesnt? does a person in a coma who you know will wake up in 9 months count as life? they arent conscious but you know they will wake up, so it would be wrong to take them off of life support.
↩ Kronnenberg No, you missed my point. If a woman wanted an abortion, there are reasons for that - and these reasons will become evident when the baby will be born. To put it simply, the woman knows that she isn’t ready for a baby, but the baby is forced upon her
"these reasons will become evident when the baby is born." 75% of abortions are purely elective, or for no reason. already stated this in my earlier comments. only 20% of abortions are for social or economic reasons, and the other 5% are physical or psychological problems, serious abnormalities, rape, and incest. for 75%, or the huge majority, of abortions, there is no reason like you are talking about. the mother just doesnt want to child, and has an abortion. also, no baby is "forced upon her." the mother became pregnant through consensual sex (around 0.5% of abortions are because of rape). she had a baby through her own free choice, nothing was forced on her. again, dont want to have a kid? dont do the one action designed purely for having a kid.
↩ Kronnenberg Which is why I’m not bringing them up you absolute retard. I never even mention rape. The woman doesn’t need to be raped in order for her to not want a baby. The fact that you here have alluded to the notion that a woman needs to have been fucking raped for her to not want a baby is insane to me.
you did mention rape when you said the mother was forced to have a baby. the only way you can be forced to be pregnant is through rape, if you are pregnant and it was not rape, it was consensual sex. if it was consensual, then you were not forced into anything. and when did i ever say that a woman needs to be raped for her to not want a baby? i specifically said the opposite.
here you go. again, actually read my comments. i literally said that most abortions are because the mother simply doesnt want a child.
↩ Kronnenberg Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.
i literally said that 75% of abortions are purely elective, to which you agreed, but then right before that you said i was a retard for saying something i didnt say, when in reality what i actually said was something you agree with? what is even happening here. seriously, read my comments before attacking me and saying random crap.
↩ Kronnenberg The mother has consensual sex and did not want the baby - therefor she should be able to get the abortion because she did not WANT the baby.
i dont want to deal with some people everyday. doesnt mean i can just go kill them, my desire for my life to be more convenient or not have certain people in it does not trump their own intrinsic value as human beings. just because a mother doesnt want a baby, doesnt mean she is justified in killing the baby, because that baby is an individual, unique, human being, who has value as a human being.
↩ Kronnenberg I never said you did?
you said im forcing people to have children. the only way to force someone to be pregnant is through rape.
???
↩ Kronnenberg you and your backwards Christian views are forcing mothers who don’t want children to have children, and simultaneously invading on any privacy they may have.
lets try and not insult people based on religion, thanks. forcing mothers who dont want children to have children? again, dont want to have kids, dont do the one action designed purely for having kids. invading their privacy? id say that the value of human life is much more important than privacy. your right to privacy does not trump the value of someone else's life.
↩ Kronnenberg you have no idea who I am.
i know that you made an account a few hours after the original post in this thread was created. you later in your post call me enchilada, which means you know who i am, a long time prior to this conversation. whose alt are you?
↩ Kronnenberg That is not what I’ve said. Miwo would have a field day with you. Babies in the first trimester are hardly living, their lives do not have value. In the third and possible late second I can understand.
your basic idea is that killing a baby is acceptable because the baby will experience suffering throughout its life. guess what, suffering is part of every human's experience, its unavoidable. i only extended your logic to include people who are already born. if miwo wanted to "have a field day" with me, he would have replied. if the third and possibly late second trimesters are when life begins, when in the late second trimester? what about 5 seconds before the third trimester? your definition is completely arbitrary. the only consistent way to define when life begins is at conception. also, hardly living? what does that even mean? is the baby alive or not? i could say that a person in a coma is hardly living. if i know that they will wake up in 9 months, it would be wrong for me to take them off life support.
↩ Kronnenberg I did, they provided no further information.
you obviously didnt read well enough.
↩ Kronnenberg You obviously don’t respond well to opposition. Typical for you Christian holy moly bible agenda pushers.
you called me a retard and told me to get my head out of my own ass? you also created your account a few hours after the "controversial opinions" thread was created, so it seems like you want to post your opinions without people knowing who you are. i think we both know who doesnt respond well to opposition.
"Typical for you Christian holy moly bible agenda pushers." what???? you obviously havent met very many christians, or you meet one or two bad christians and you have confirmation bias. "holy moly bible agenda pushers" sounds like its pulled out of a bad joke. again, lets not insult people based on their religion.
↩ Kronnenberg Roe vs Wade ruled that women did have a right to abortion because of the right to personal privacy
roe v wade is likely getting overturned, probably because it was a legal nightmare. even supreme court justices have acknowledged that it was outrageous, namely the recent leak.
↩ Kronnenberg enchilada or whatever the fuck your name is?
how do you know that i used to have enchilada in my name? again, whose alt are you?
↩ Kronnenberg Who the fuck are you to tell a woman what she can and can’t do in her deeply personal life.
this has nothing to do with me, it has everything to do with basic morality. i dont care how deeply personal it is, you cannot murder another human being simply because you dont want them in your life. if i kidnapped someone and was holding them in my basement, thats pretty deeply personal. i wouldnt want anyone else to know. doesnt mean that because its personal nobody else has the right to call me completely insane.
↩ Kronnenberg It ruled that states cannot limit a woman’s right to abortion when it comes to maternal health
physical and psychological problems are part of the 5% of abortions i mentioned, which also includes serious abnormalities, rape, and incest. im not sure id disagree that if the mother will die from childbirth, an abortion would be justified. i dont really lean one way or the other on that, i can see the justification for both sides. however, that only accounts for less than 5% of abortions, so that court case has nothing to do with abortions at large.
also, on a side note, how does a supreme court decision mean that something is morally correct? supreme court decisions have upheld slavery, segregation, and stopping women from voting. the supreme court can only decide what is constitutional, not what is right. the argument against abortion is not a constitutional one, but a moral one.
↩ Kronnenberg I hope your mother has a child she really doesn’t want, and I hope you see the look and disappointment on her face when you say she can’t have an abortion.
what the fuck is wrong with you? like seriously, im concerned for your mental health. my mother would agree that she shouldnt get an abortion, but who the fuck are you to say that you hope that my mother has a child she doesnt want, and that i watch her be disappointed that she cant abort it? now i know why you made an alt and are talking through this account, because you dont want people to realize what a shitty person you are.
you have refused to actually try to read and understand my comments, you have strawmanned everything i have said instead of actually engaging with my real arguments, you have insulted me because of my religion, and you have wished horrible things upon my family, which i should report you for honestly. ill have a real discussion with you if you want one once you apologize for wishing that on my mother. you have no right to talk about her like that, ever.