discussion regarding stubbornness and trigger happiness

Please Note: The TotalFreedom Forum has now been put into a read-only mode. Total Freedom has now closed down and will not be returning in any way, shape or form. It has been a pleasure to lead this community and I wish you all the best for your futures.

    good evenorninoonight

    I've made this post because I'm starting to get concerned a bit following the recent ban appeal that went a little bit to shit. I'm concerned that we're beginning to jump the gun a bit due to paranoia from the "moles" or whatever and as a result we are too trigger happy and as a consequence are banning innocent users for no good reason when they're doing nothing wrong, or are doing just general suspicious things

    I want to say: make sure you know what you are doing before you ban

    honestly I was arguing for allowing bans for circumstantial reasons, videogamesm12 knows full well how much of a fuss I made about that, but recent events made me realise that I don't frankly think people on the server are able to do this in a way that is suitable. i am not innocent of this myself (e.g. G6_ ban) but my point here is that we need to learn from this and move forward before it becomes a big problem

    another thing i want to touch on, again something I'm guilty of myself, which is being unfairly stubborn when it comes to incidents or events. if something comes to light, it's up to us as a team to make sure we are being as unbiased and reasonable as possible. the latest appeal has concerned me because we're drifting towards an absolutist mentality where ignorance for the rules = malice. i want to make it very clear: ops who join and break the rules aren't necessarily moles and shouldn't be treated unfairly unless they prove to be a member of the moles. if they are, ban and move on.

    some people join, see "totalfreedom", and assume they can do anything. this is understandable and i don't see why we shouldn't be giving second chances if they explain themselves. if they then repeat the behaviour then yes ban them but I'm getting tired of seeing admins be like "no you broke the rules stay banned" when they're clearly just lacking knowledge of the server and how we work. tell me: how many of you join a server and immediately do /rules? why would you do it on a server called "total freedom"

    at base value just think what it's like to be the other person. think from a perspective that isn't that of an admin, from a perspective of someone brand new who hasn't heard of tf before and wants to join our community, they will not know anything and therefore may not be used to our ruleset

    I'm saying now, I'm not eao or even anything important, but if i do see this being done to a ridiculous extent i will suspend mfs myself, before forwarding all information to the eao team

    thanks
    luke phrman

    52-CEF3-CF-C4-FF-4798-8469-4-BDCA5-D35247.jpg

    Here's some advice when handling the 'suspected moles' to prevent triggerhappiness:

    • Investigate the player if they are doing suspicious things before considering banning them.

    Some things you can do to verify if they're malicious:

    • Have telnet open to check logs for log spamming exploits, etc.
    • Check their inventories regularly for exploit items. (Collect a copy of anything suspicious and let someone proficient in them know if unsure)
    • Spectate them in case they try and grief.
    • Check the IP with /eseen. But do note, do not rely solely on the IP address for an end decision. Legitimate players may also be using a VPN.
    • Collect evidence if an offence was made. (Screenshots of inventories with copies of items collected for analysis, replay mod footage, logs, etc.) Evidence is what is needed for an indefinite ban.
    • Run /lookup and check the Alts section and see if they're an alt of another account. Check the other account if it has been banned before or was confirmed to be a mole.
    • Don't rangeban IPs. Moles will simply just get a new ip set. Just ban the IPs they used that are physically tied to an account used to attack the server. We shouldn't be banning entire ranges thinking it'll stop them. You'll end up causing more harm by banning innocent players for a offence they didn't do.
    • Moles often make it obvious its them. It'll definitely be a mole if they advertise their discord.

    Obvious moles:



    Checking items and who placed them can identify a mole. This is tangible evidence. - It is an item with NBT that includes the fact they're a mole and you can coreprotect lookup or invsee a player to check who has it.

    This is what happens when trigger-happy admins jump to conclusions - an IBR was written for a player who did nothing wrong. https://forum.totalfreedom.me/d/3970-yurni-i…ite-ban-request

    javaw_VqNRNZdU6Q.png
    image.png
    image.png

    a brief thing to add onto this, but to those of you who have been repeatedly warned about being trigger-happy and witch-hunting, this should hopefully be the last time you need to be told to stop. it better be.

    1gaah.png

    Ok, let's work on the root cause. Why are some admins messing up? Are all of them added recently?

    Then it's clear what's the issue: they haven't been followed enough for them to learn things like what mistakes should they avoid and that patience is better than readiness.

    Senior admins, as it's pointed out in the application form, are the ones to refer to for guidance etc. I'd advice them to engage more with the team, spot who's not being great at their job and take initiative to assist them instead of just waiting for something to happen or warn them and hope problems will solve by themselves.

    I'd also appreciate if we avoided comments like this in public, I think it just makes things worse as OPs will see the whole team as full of stupid people.

    Quote

    ↩  RedEastWood but I am sympathetic with you because I have an insight into the culture of admins to treat OPs as the enemy, rather than living beings who have rational thought processes and make mistakes.

    TotalFreedom's Executive Community & Marketing Manager

    Quote

    ↩  Tizz I’d also appreciate if we avoided comments like this in public, I think it just makes things worse as OPs will see the whole team as full of stupid people.

    I don’t appreciate direct call outs, that’s not what this thread was intended for and in my eyes I don’t see why that isn’t allowed. You want seniors to engage and talk to lower staff and when Red does so he’s wrong…?

    Quote

    ↩  Tizz Senior admins, as it’s pointed out in the application form, are the ones to refer to for guidance etc. I’d advice them to engage more with the team, spot who’s not being great at their job and take initiative to assist them instead of just waiting for something to happen or warn them and hope problems will solve by themselves.

    I do agree with this but I will say the whole ‘we shouldnt warn them and hope the problem sorts itself out’ isn’t particularly good to see. Take the examples I gave, those had several warnings and I myself (along with other seniors BTS) had discussions with various admins regarding their conduct and it ultimately lead nowhere

    52-CEF3-CF-C4-FF-4798-8469-4-BDCA5-D35247.jpg

    Quote

    ↩  Tizz I’d also appreciate if we avoided comments like this in public, I think it just makes things worse as OPs will see the whole team as full of stupid people.

    I’m probably not going to refrain from calling out blatant elitism where I see it. That isn’t really fair to the OPs who are a victim of the consequences of this enemy mentality.

    Perhaps the issue isn’t really me shedding light on the matter of admin culture; but rather the admin culture itself.

    Quote

    ↩  Tizz patience is better than readiness.

    This is possibly the best way to act as an admin - exercise caution when banning and make sure to consider the context, intricacies and nuances of every situation. Remember that each situation is different, and for every reason to ban there is likely a reason against banning (obviously extreme cases are barred). Use your own judgement to evaluate the different views and come to a substantiated judgement.

    Quote

    ↩  Tizz I’d also appreciate if we avoided comments like this in public, I think it just makes things worse as OPs will see the whole team as full of stupid people.

    With the way I see it and with respect, if we are acting like stupid people we shouldn't have an issue with getting called out on stupidity. I say that as someone who didn't exactly show myself with the greatest decorum in that thread either.

    Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter.