A Small Suggestion

just remove indef ban

Im not going to vote here, but Imagine this scenario
Operator A joins, thinking its Anarchy
Operator A Griefs a small part (for example, like, 10 or so blocks) of a large build (Take an Atlas Class Destroyer, for example)
Admin B issues a 24 hour ban to Operator A
The next day comes around, and Operator A gets frustrated, because they had learned their lesson, but still cannot join, because of the frustration, they end up removing the server from their server list.

This is what i think happens with a large portion of players that come to join

I think we should establish categories of griefs, instead of reducing the amount, we should focus on the weight of the punishment.

↩  Zarcana I've always been more lenient on new players, in other words 24h ban is issued only if they repeat the grief a second time after being clearly warned.

Object

While I agree that more leniency and less restrictions are good ideas, there are cases where indefinite bans and regular bans are necessary.

Arent you the guy who got indefed for spreading crash items? All these people who got banned for similar reasoning and are somewhat considered to be accomplices coming back to being active at similar times puts a bad taste in my mouth.

But besides that, every new player that joins is heavily urged to read the rules using /rules. By joining and playing on the server you agree to follow those rules even if you dont read them. I do agree that first time punishments should be more lenient. But in most cases they already do get a hefty amount of lenience.

I Object. Leniency in regards to certain server policies is needed, but not for bans. Indefinite bans are a necessary evil that are needed to keep problematic people out. We need them to keep those stupid assholes who think crashing the server repeatedly or their little troll stunts are 'funny' and for the severe cases in which we have people who've broke real life laws.

I've also noticed its usually the players who are banned that suggest leniency to try and get their bans removed sooner.

While Wikipedia's "Assume good faith" is a policy on Wikipedia and not specifically here, I feel like it's still a good idea to remember that the server's, uh, imperfect advertising often leads people to think that there aren't rules (perhaps minus 0a), and that 24-hour (or even 5-minute) bans for minor-ish offenses (see ↩  Zarcana's post, especially from new players) might not be the best idea.

However, codifying this as an actual policy might be difficult, so neutral (intentionally ignoring the specifics of who proposed this).

↩ @'billy7oblos' New player: joins Most of the online players: "Read /rules" or "These are the basic rules you should follow x, y, z." Indefed players: "How are they going to know to read /rules when its hidden in the cluttered join message"

Like seriously, you were an active player. You know this.

My meaning:

Quote

↩ @'billy7oblos' (if they even see the /rules msg among all the other crap)

refuting this ^ and calling you out on your ignorance. You have almost 3 days of active playtime, there's no way you havent been online when a new player joins and see people tell them to read rules. In fact I'm pretty sure you've been online while I told a new player to read rules.

My truth: https://uwu.catboy.pet/qw9F44mb

↩  Yurni

That's not his point, perhaps you misunderstood him.

His point is that the rules are so unnecessarily convoluted, written up like a constitution, and he doubts a new player who has joined a server called "Total Freedom" will want to read seven pages of rules.

I wholly agree with what he has said, the rules are indeed way too long, and they undermine the very name of this server. No new player wants to join a server called TotalFreedom, and have seven pages of rules shoved down their throat.

Quote

↩  Yurni I told a new player to read rules.

So? This has no bearing to either his point or my point, it just seems as though you've taken his suggestion quite personaly...

Even if you did tell a new player to read rules, the fact is still that said player would not want to join a freedom server and have to read seven pages of rules.

↩  RedEastWood I didn't misunderstand him, was simply poking at a much smaller point he made. When you read the rest of the sentence I said that you quoted: "In fact I’m pretty sure you’ve been online while I told a new player to read rules." I was not trying to prove the main suggestion of shortening the rules unnecessary, in fact I agree quite strongly with that. Instead I meant that other players say to read rules making the point that this "(if they even see the /rules msg among all the other crap)" isnt a fair point to make because the other players emphasize that the new player should read the rules.

Some of the things I said were insensitive, instead of calling out billy's argument I attacked him directly, and I'm not quite sure why exactly I said what I did in that regard. I am sorry for that.

↩ @'billy7oblos' Thank you, and imo the reply looks pretty small if you single out what I wrote, images make things look thicc. But either way yea it was dumb, probably wasnt myself last night for some reason.

Denied in favour of progressing https://forum.totalfreedom.me/d/3183-change-…-long-term-bans