Migrate from Jira to Taiga

Vouch I really like the idea about transparency

vouch, holy smokes. please. this is several orders of magnitude less ugly than the dozen other options. and it has an import button? i just wanna know if the devs would miss any important jira features.

im not on the jira but im fairly sure it has integration with other things here webhook wise

still vouch im not seeing anything wrong with this

Jira is ATLAS's tool of choice for project management when it comes it things like this due to the integration with tools like confluence and Github. We also intentionally don't want to be hosting our own services when it comes to this which is why we haven't made use of open source alternatives.

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↩  characterslimits Taiga is more secure than Jira because it's open-source

Can I also highlight that this is a crock of shit...

Open source does not mean more secure.

Atlassian are targeting enterprise customers not hobbyists. I would trust their security approach over an open source project any day.

Idk why but you remind me of Reperak.

Object anyway

vouch 🤣

Vouch

Vouch

Object

Vouch for using it for TF dev stuff.

I am considered skilled but didn't apply for dev as I still don't know Java specifically. Public tickets let people like me contribute and support the almost deserted dev base where we can.

To add as well.

I used to export the outstanding development work for the current release and encouraged folks to use it and talk to us on discord around making sure someone isn't already working on the ticket but nobody ever took us up on it.

I'm happy to pick that back up if it's useful, but moving the tools isn't really something that's practical. As I say we use Jira as our exclusive project management tool and a number of other integrated Atlassian tools so it would not be a good experience for those in the actual development team to move.

To address your points specifically

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↩  characterslimits Taiga is open source
Taiga is open source while Jira is proprietary software. Taiga allows you to do more things with it's code and it allows anyone to view the source code

From my perspective this is not a feature that adds value, we wouldn't look to modify the source code anyway. We don't have time to do that or the need / will to do this so offers no advantage over the current cloud hosted and ATLAS Supported tool.

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↩  characterslimits Taiga allows guest access for free
About a month and a half ago, I pointed out that there is a lack of transparency between the developers on TotalFreedom. Taiga allows you to create public projects for free which allows us to see what developers are doing and it fixes the transparency problem we have. Jira forces you to pay a fee to allow guest access to see your projects.

Yes, I agree this is a benefit over Atlassian Cloud, though not over Jira as a product. We could have considered looking for an Atlassian open source license, but most of our projects don't fit into that.

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↩  characterslimits Taiga is more secure
Taiga is more secure than Jira because it's open-source. Anyone can audit the code of Taiga and check to see if there's a security issue and report it if there is one. For Jira, you cannot see it's source code. The only way to know if there is one is that we're the first to be attacked, or if we're notified by Jira themselves.

This as I said is absolute nonsense, open source does not mean more secure. Atlassian has been around for a lot longer, and with it being an enterprise product with an enterprise price tag, means they are paying for security specialists to regularly audit and pen test. It's also US FEDRAMP Moderate accredited which allows it to be used for sensitive us DoD projects, so I'll trust Jira over Taiga.

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↩  characterslimits Taiga is highly customizable
The On Premise version of Taiga gives users 100% control over the software, which means you can basically do anything you want with Taiga. Jira is a cloud based solution, which means they have control and they can suspend your project at any time.

Again, gives us no benefit because we wouldn't want to customise it, and Jira let's us customise it as much as we need it to... We use Jira Cloud but could use the on-prem version if we wanted to pay for it, and likewise Taiga cloud could suspend our projects at any time... This entire point is moot.

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↩  characterslimits Taiga has a built-in importer
Taiga has a built-in importer, so you can transfer everything from Jira to Taiga.

Not really a feature when you don't want to use it in the first place, offers no advantages over Jira.

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↩  characterslimits Screenshots

Compared to Jira the UI is dated and lacks clarity and functionality from what I can see, not really something that gives me confidence to want to move to it.

Now, some reasons we do use Jira

• It's already ATLAS's tool of choice for Project Management like this.
• It's got an excellent reputation as being a provider of enterprise security and functionality, and being a leader in the agile software development space.
• It does everything we need it to do.
• It links very nicely into Confluence (Which we use for Wiki tooling) and also Github
• It's free and cloud managed in an enterprise environment
• It doesn't require me to host additional servers / infrastructure.

Now, if TF actually grows to the point where we have enough developers that we breach the Jira Cloud Free Tier of usage, we would look to re-visit the tooling choice and decide if paying for Jira cloud is a good idea, or if alternatives are going to provide us with better value, but right now given the free tier works well and we have plenty of space on it, and the fact that every time we've tried to get the community involved in the development we've had 0 contributions, the con's to me outweigh the benefits.

If someone can give me a reason we should put the effort into moving away from an enterprise ready solution we already have and that I'm personally very experienced in managing, I'd love to hear valid arguments for why we should leave Jira.

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↩  characterslimits Cost Bias Fallacy

The fact it's one of the largest used products in the market globally and trusted by far more sensitive use-cases than is was sort of my point. You argued Tiaga is more secure, I have said you've failed to provide proof of that.

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↩  characterslimits Appeal to Authority Fallacy.
Also, do we really need that extra security? We're a Minecraft server, not the U.S government

You made the argument that Tiaga is more secure, you've not backed that point up.

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↩  characterslimits True, but I wrote this point the way I did because I thought you preferred self-hosted services (and I'm wrong)

I have actively tried to avoid self-hosting things, it introduces additional maintenance and risk and just isn't needed.

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↩  characterslimits This is how you transfer your data from Jira to Taiga. You could start from a clean slate if you want to.

My point is that's only a feature if you have any desire to move, which I do not.

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↩  characterslimits Compared to other alternatives that exist, Taiga's UI blows them out of the water. I was about to suggest to switch to Redmine (which is another open-source agile project management software), but I thought the same thing. Here's a screenshot of Redmine:

Saying "There are worse UI's out there" isn't really a selling point of this product...

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↩  characterslimits TotalFreedom is too small for something like Jira

I disagree, The Tier of Jira we're on is designed for small projects exactly like TF... It's pretty much the type of projects our pricing plan is designed for.

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↩  characterslimits Literally every single company would claim that their services are the best to rope people into getting their products. Just because they say they're the best doesn't mean they are the best. (Taiga also claims they're the best, but for a project the size of TotalFreedom, I would say Taiga would make a good fit)

I'm not making claims that they are making, I'm going from over 5 years of first hand experience and having ran a number of Atlassian and other similar tools in large enterprises. Atlassian is by far the best in the business of all the tools I've ever used, and it does have an excellent reputation for security and functionality and is recognised globally as a leader in its market...

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↩  characterslimits Except for allowing public access

It doesn't need to do that... It's something people here seem to like, but as I've said before it doesn't actually serve a use if people don't contribute anyway which is currently the case.

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↩  characterslimits Taiga has wikis too

It's not confluence though which was my point, I'd have to do another migration.

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↩  characterslimits Taiga has Github integrations too

If it did not I'd be concerned.

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↩  characterslimits There is a cloud version of Taiga if your willing to put up with the limitations of free cloud managed software

And yet I don't have to deal with any limitations currently that cause issues...

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↩  characterslimits Taiga will give you free unlimited projects on the condition that your projects are public

Which in reality is a worse deal given we do have TF Projects which we would want to keep private...

I personally think that it's critical that what's going on with TF development should at least be communicated. Saying raised as FS-4206969 doesn't really do anything because once it's been raised no one can see the progress that's been made on it. I also haven't seen a development changelog in a long time which used to be a thing. I personally hate JIRA, but it's not really my problem since I don't use it. I don't think the answer is to ditch JIRA, but to rather to actually have clear communication about what's going on. I used to have a changelog with every little thing that I did, I didn't broadly say things like "we're working on TFM" or "upgrading to 1.17" is a priority. Duh, of course it is and of course I already knew that. But how far are you? What plugins need to be upgraded? Are any broken? Is there anything new that needs to be patched? This is the specific communication that's been extremely lacking. I'm just throwing this out as an example but it applies to many other issues at hand. That's just my two cents.

So unfortunately this isn't actually going to work, it turns out Tiago doesn't support the newer versions of Jira, and never supported importing from the Jira cloud.

Given we'd have to re-write hundreds and hundreds of tickets, which isn't currently possible unfortunately I can't make this work right now unless Tiago fix this and enable Jira cloud import support in some format.

If folks are aware of other ways to achieve this I'm happy to take further suggestions, but this will be declined on the grounds it's not technically possible at the moment.

(And to clarify, I know all of this because I just spent the last 3 hours trying to get it working and getting to importing the Jira project just to find out it doesn't work)

I'm going to un-deny it, I've got a few other ideas to try as while I do prefer Jira 100% of the time, at least this way folks can't tell me they haven't got access to know what they could be developing!